Peter Brook
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Posts posted by Peter Brook
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unfortunately i didn't get it! grrrrrr. just when i'd worked out a way to justify it to the missus
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Is it a C/G or a G/D? - the title of the first post and content don't match.
The AC Norman instrument listed on Hobgoblins site at £750 doesn't exist as far as I know. I tried to buy it last year. It continually sits on their secondhand stock list but isn't there.
If your instrument is as new then you should easily get £800 for it. If it is a G/D let me know. I've got a C/G and want a matching one :-)
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My question is for those who chose the hybrid over the vintage (or new vintage
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You like to put us on the spot Bill!
Doh! I guess I just told you that I was one of the "hybrid stickers" 
. Lots of reasons for me - I know exactly who made my concertina, I know he cares deeply about his work, I know he'll charge "fairly" for servicing. He answers the phone! I can look around his workshop and see what else is in progress. I know he is constantly seeking to improve the quality of his instruments and is careful over which suppliers he uses. He only lives 30 minutes drive away. He is a real gentleman. He makes me a cup of tea when I see him, and a ten minute visit usually turns into an hours conversation, with other concertina players also dropping in to chat! I can get a good quality, air efficient concertina for just over £1000.
Problem with a vintage concertina as with a motorbike (car etc.) firstly is where has it been for the last twenty years (damp garage/loft/wardrobe wrapped in a blanket - who knows), what condition is it in, what was the quality of the original material used to build it and talent of builder etc etc. Will it need a £500 tune up/restoration. Added to which is the russian roulette of using ebay to source an affordable vintage instrument (which I would never do).
I'd rather have the personal connection with a living builder, than own a piece of history.
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Like a New Orleans concertina choir
I was hoping that people in the US or near New Orleans might be able to explain what it means?
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I've not been long on this road and only have two concertinas both anglos, 30 key Norman in C/G, and weird tuned cheap german concertina which is about 100 years old.
I also managed to "obtain" a G/D melodeon recently - which was nice....
my wish list of future instruments is growing....... (daily!)
1) G/D anglo
1a) 40 key C/G !!!!!!!!!!!!!
2) I think it would be a crime not to have an English - not sure of the model or name but Bryan Creer has one which goes an octave lower than the "standard"
3) Simply got to have a duet - again not sure of model but one of those huge metal ended ones (as played by Iris Bishop) would do the job
4) I don't think I can survive much longer with out one of those B/C/C# accordians either
5) Oh and a mandochello as well - they sound great!!!!
I make that about £10,000 to £15,000...... where did I put that loan application form....
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I would love to have a MIDI Concertina. I could hook it up to a fuzz box and reverb it, maybe a wawa peddle, plug into an amp and play Iron Butterfly's Inagadadavida!! DA DA DADADA DA DA DA DA!!!
-Brad
Now you 're talking....
I could play those fantastic guitar riffs from the Saw Doctors. N17, I Useta love a, exillerating sadness. Now then digital, analogue or valve amp....................
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Have a great Christmas John all the best for the trip!
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people will use them to steal what is distinctive and beautiful about other instruments at the cost of what is distinctive and beautiful about the basic instrument itself
Well, I agree with the sentiment of your post entirely. To me Midi is a "fun" thing to "play" with, and I would use it in the privicy of my own home. It can never and should never replace the authentic instrument and/or the talent to play that instrument. I know a number of guitarists who have access to such systems, but they would never use them in a "real" performance.
I am wholeheartedly against the plastic music in the "popular" charts which I think has been caused in part by the midi explosion. I'm a firm believer that just because you can do something, does not mean that you should!
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Actually I'd quite like to try a midi concertina. There are a couple in existence already. I think it would be great to be playing concertina, whilst the sound coming out of the amp is a Fender Strat, or a French Horn, or a Church Organ or Peoples voices.
I guess it comes down to if you like Jean Michel Jarre (and before him Tomita!) or not
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I hope you don't have any cats near by Alan!
We had a cat many years ago who was expert at holding the net up either with his head or another paw, whilst taking a swipe at the neighbours carp with the other paw. My parents have had several angry neighbours knocking on the door demanding something be done over the years!
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A Christmas gift to everyone on concertina.net
I have a pdf version if people would like it.
The first person to record an MP3 of this needs to take a break from music for a while!
Happy Christmas and Fair Winds for 2005
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Well are we talking about what is traditional for the melodeons or what is traditional for the music? Looking through my copies of the various O'Neil's books, there wasn't alot transcribed in C.
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Bill
Sorry Bill (and everyone) this is thread creep on a massive scale. I'm just curious as to how we ended up in D/G & A (and relative minors). To my knowledge Ireland invented three musical instruments the Clarsach, the bodhran and the pipes. The violin is of Arabic/North African origin. Carolan was not constrained to D/G/A (according to Donal O'Sullivan) and wrote in all sorts of keys. So how have we got from there to here?
BTW I'm not passing any comment on what key we should play in, I am interested to know if there are musical or ease of playing issues which have lead to the adoption of these keys, and which instruments, if any, have influenced this adoption. (Sounds like a PHD subject!).
Thanks Stuart, that makes some sense to me from hearing Tony Linnane (violin)recordings where he repeatedly hits one low note in each phrase and plays the tune "above" it.
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All four can be characterised by an aromatic taste.
Henk,
So that's why people say they are having a "blonde moment" when they can't remember what they were going to say
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So to help local melodeon players Peter arranged for Hohner to produce a batch melodeons in G/D, I believe that they were stocked and distributed by Bells of Surbiton and the EFDSS shop.
Oh well I'm sure he had the best of intentions
From what I know of Scan Tester (who did not play for Morris but did play for ECD), he really couldn't care less what key he played in and jumped around from key to key, and instrument to instrument (melodeon, concertina [C & Bb], and violin to fit in with whoever he was playing for or with. I understand he particularly liked C for song accompaniment. (from Reg Hall book)
Why did/do fiddlers traditionally play in G/D/A? I've asked my sister this - she is a Grade 8 violinist - and she says that it is no harder to play violin in the key of C than any other key and she can not think of a musical explaination. Anyone else with experience of fiddles know why this is?
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Well it's partly topography, this strip of the UK is bounded by mountains (or hills technically - Peak District to the south, Pennines right through the middle, Vale of Bowland to North West etc.) with a higher rainfall than the rest of the UK. So when mills and factories started to be built they needed a reliable water supply, to run water wheels etc. The first ever factory (yes in the entire world) was built at Cromford in Derbyshire (right at the southern tip of this fringe) by Arkwright (of Spinning Jenny fame). So they built the factories, and people moved to work in them, and large towns and cities sprung up around them.
You should try to find a light pollution photograph of the UK taken on a clear night. The light almost goes from coast to coast in this stretch. (http://www.cpre.org.uk/campaigns/landscape-and-beauty/light-pollution/light-pollution-your-area.htm) various pdfs.
Where you have got more people, you have more with the potential to play a particular instrument. However as Alan says, dance and ritual are strong in these areas with North West & Cotswold Morris, Haxey Hood, Ashbourne Football, Castleton Garland, Derbyshire Well Dressing, Sheffield Carols, York Mystery Plays etc. etc.
edited to add url
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Sorry to say that the PA has had a reputation as being "naff"
well, well. A little chanel hoping the other night brought on one of those airplane films (this was the one with the Space Shuttle).
Anyway the William Shatner character says something like "Pull Strikers record", low and behold he is presented with an LP, on the cover is "Striker" with sequined PA, in lederhosen (however that is spelt?)and green feathered hat, along with the caption "400 all time polka greats".
Stuart said "no such thing as an intrinsically bad musical instrument", I completely agree, however that is not the public perception, particularly of PA. The chap, John Graham, who plays PA for Headington Quarry is a very gifted musician and I meant no criticsm of him in my earlier post.
It is just my hobby horse:
Morris dance should be accompanied by a concertina, usually played in the key of C
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I go out with Jeffreys!! Hmmm!
If you went out with Joy, the trees of the fields would clap their hands...........
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Sorry to say that the PA has had a reputation as being "naff" and not a "proper" folk instrument for a number of years (at least where I am from). I also think it is quite sad that Headington Quarry morris men are now accompanied by a PA. I imagine William Kimber "turning in his grave".
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Just to defend Stuart - although I'm sure he can do so ably enough on his own. At the last Concertinas at Witney, Stuart played in the evening concert on a bill also including Alistair Anderson and John Kirpatrick. Stuart's concertinas sounded just as good in my opinion as the instruments played by others. In a concert setting there was no discernable quality differential in terms of sound and tone. Surely that is the ultimate test?!
I don't know anything about Alistair Anderson's instrument, but John Kirkpatrick told me that Colin Dipper estimated that to build a concertina similar in quality to John's (ie a 40-key Crabb C/G with aluminium ends) would be well over £6000!!!!
Money unfortunately is always a consideration and can not be ruled out of the equation, and for some people "owning a piece of history" is a consideration. BTW Tom great topic
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Just to say for those who are in the area, I'll probably be in the "Blue Ball" at Worrell on Sunday (12th) at lunchtime with my father, to join in with the singers. My first carolling visit since Boxing Day at Handsworth a couple of years ago.
Robin, I agree with you Jacob's Well is just wonderful. Let's hope it's included on Sunday.
all the best,
Peter
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I've held off entering this discussion as I think that "tone" can be quite subjective, and influenced, as others have said, by what you grew up listening to.
I have a Norman anglo with accordion reeds. To me it sounds like a concertina, and sounds nothing like my friends melodeon (for example). A number of (vintage) concertina owning people have commented that:
1) it sounds wonderful,
2) it sounds like a concertina,
3) that Andy seems to build concertinas that have a very close tone to vintage concertinas.
That being said when I go to Whitney or another large gathering of concertina players, I can hear the slight difference between my concertina and a vintage one.
To me a vintage concertina has a "rounder", "softer", "warmer" tone, and sounds more like a brass instument (I also play Cornet). However I think the casual listener would be hard pressed to tell the difference.
For what it is worth if I had the money I would ask Mr Norman (or Mr Dipper if I had even more money!) if he would consider making me a 40-key anglo, rather than spending £3000 - £4000 on a 38 to 40 key vintage anglo concertina.
all the best,
Peter
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Anglo layout can be quite perculiar but commonly for 30 key C/G C# is found
lower register C#
Middle Accidental Key on the push left hand (ie above button "middle" C)
higher register C#
First Accidental Key on the push right hand (ie above button for C above "middle" C)
also about 50% of C/G anglos have this C# repeated Second Accidental Key on the pull, right hand
All the best.
You should with practice be able to play easily in D, A etc without too much trouble - it all takes practice though!
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I'm not sure of the exact number, but "While Shepherds Watched" fits nicely with around 200 different tunes, many of which are sung each year around Sheffield.
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Being a son of the steel city, there is nothing to compare with the village carols in Sheffield and North Derbyshire which are sung in various public houses across the area. Hard to pick just one as a favourite, but as a morris man one of the ones I like is "Sweet Bells" a version of "While Shepherds watched". Other firm favourites are the solos "Swaledale", "Mistletoe Bough" and "The Christmas Tree (Kris Kringle)". I know that the last one is actually an American song writtten by William Bradbury in the 1860s so more of you might be familar with that one.
Happy Caroling :-)
Valueation
in Buy & Sell
Posted
It's cool that you have it and are enjoying it
i've already got a C/G so I guess I was just being a little greedy!