michael stutesman
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Posts posted by michael stutesman
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I have a strong interest in busking and 'street music'. I would be very interested to hear of anyone's experience busking with the concertina. Any first hand experience and tips would be most welcome.
Michael
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Anyone care to venture an opinion as to why changing the valves would change the tuning. It makes no sense to me.
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And he's one of the best.Steve Dickinson at Wheatstone did the valve work.
Valves are usually installed with the split (hairy) side *down* against the reedpan. I can't imagine Steve installing one backwards. Vavles tend to curl toward the "skin" side rather than split side (one of the reasons their installed split side down).I still wonder what actually makes the valve curl. It seems to me that it would have to be shrinkage of the hair side of the leather.
I recommend NOT oiling the valve. Just replace it. Oil may attract dust and/or make it adhere somewhat to the reedpan. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why hair sheep is used for valves - hair sheep have far less oil (grease/fat/lanolin) than do wool sheep.This makes me wonder if there isn't something you could put on it to relax the fibers like lanolin which is the natural oil in sheep leather.-- Rich --
I think we are using the term 'hairy side' differently, or else I am totally confused as to which side of the valve shoud be against the reed pan. I was using the term 'hair side' to mean the side of the leather that the hair grew on which is actually the smooth surface of the leather. I think you were using the term 'hairy' to mean the rough or split side. Is this correct?
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There are lots of reasons for valves curling though in your case, with only 1 valve curling and the rest in good shape after 10 years... AND if the adjacent pitch vavles are okay... it may be due to a less-than-ideal vavle to begin with. The lower the reed pitch and larger/longer the valve, the thicker and springier the valve needs to be.
The best ones are skived and hand-punched from the forechest section of specially treated hair sheep hide. That part has the right density for larger vavles. As you work your way around the sheep the hide gets thinner (okay for smaller valves). The back and especially the shoulder areas aren't suitable at all as being too thin and not very stretchy. The neck area has too many folds that make for "weak" areas (easy to crease) in valves.
Not many people go to this extreme but rather buy valves from a supplier. The higher quality (and more expensive) the valves, the more attention will have been taken to the areas - and grain direction - the various size valves are punched from.
If all the rest of your valves are in good shape, you probably had a very good set of valves and a very knowledgeable person choose and install them (even with a great set of valves there'll be some culls). I think that your wayward valve may have been one that slipped by the quality control and installer.
-- Rich --
Steve Dickinson at Wheatstone did the valve work. I still wonder what actually makes the valve curl. It seems to me that it would have to be shrinkage of the hair side of the leather. This makes me wonder if there isn't something you could put on it to relax the fibers like lanolin which is the natural oil in sheep leather.
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does anyone know what makes valves curl? My english concertina had new valves placed ten years ago and one of them is now curling up (the much used low D of course).
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Thankyou all for your input. I never guessed I would start a 'hot topic'. I took the plunge and ordered an edeophone from Chris Algar and she arrived today. She may be eighty years old but she's drop dead gorgeous and sings like a bird!!
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I don't think the sound of a Jackie would be a handicap for a child learning. The only drawback I see to a Jackie as a starter instrument is that the distance between the thumbstrap and the pinky rest is a bit on the long side which could be a problem for small hands. However,I think the pinky rest could be moved a little without too much difficulty.
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I have a theory that since Mr. Lachenal pioneered techniques for mass production of concertinas that there might be less variation in quality between Lachenals than between Wheatstones. (even though there is still significant variation by all accounts). I would think that adapting mechanized techniques would create more uniformity than having everything handmade. I haven't seen enough instruments to test this theory. Any thoughts?
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Thankyou for all your input. Unfortunately I live in the states and traveling to Barleycorn Concertinas would add a bit too much to the price.
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I've never seen a concertina played with a strap like that. How is it anchored?
Sticky-backed velcro. A strip of the soft stuff about 2.5cm long on the concertina, and the long bit is the "rough" stuff with the sticky scraped off. I've been sticking velcro on my concertina for many years and (I just checked) can't see any marks on the wood underneath where velcro used to be. Depending on your concertina type/finish you might want to be careful though. I have the strap so it's got just a little bit of tension in it when the bellows are closed.
Also, my guess is the strap wouldn't work well on a standard treble, since it obviously limits the amount the bellows can extend. The idea is that although it means you have to change bellows direction more often, the stability is such that it doesn't matter when you do.
I don't understand why you think it might not work on a standard treble. Because the instrument is smaller than a tenor treble?
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I found myself playing the concertina today and the camera was already set up (pointing at my bird table on my balcony) and just needed turning round - so I found myself recording.
One thing is that it shows that with a strap across the bottom of the bellows you can play without the pinky rest (so all 4 fingers free to move and play) and not have the bellows flapping around.
Your playing appears so effortless. Very beautiful. I've never seen a concertina played with a strap like that. How is it anchored?
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I am contemplating purchasing an Edeophone and would appreciate any comments from members who own one. I've heard the tone quality described as 'more like a clarinet' than a Wheatstone. That sounds very appealing to me. Does anyone know of a good recording of an edeophone?
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Thankyou all for your feedback. I've never had a raised end concertina in my hands. In pictures it looks like the buttons would be higher with respect to your thumb and little finger which is why I thought it might play differently. Evidently this is not the case.
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I would like to know from you english system players if playing an instrument with raised ends makes a big difference in how it plays versus an instrumnet with flat ends.
Michael
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Hello, I thought I'd let you know how I'm getting on with the concertina from a complete beginners point of view.
Firstly after trying the Anglo and the English out I decided to go for the English because I really wanted to learn how to read music and to me personally the English seemed the right choice.
I went for a Jackie from The Music Room and found the staff there very helpful indeed, because I live on Skye I couldn't pop in to see them so the time they spent answering questions on the phone was much appreciated.( A big public thank you to Jill !! )
Because I was new to the instrument and also new to the concept of practise I decided that scales seemed the way forward first of all. It also struck me that one of the problems learning any instrument was being familiar with tunes.Tutor books may have tunes to learn that you are unfamiliar with but a scale is very familiar and forces you to read music and works the fingers. So when it comes to learning a song in say G for example at least your fingers are used to the patterns.
I put in half an hour each night seven days a week anymore and I get tired and loose concentration. I find if you walk away after half an hour feeling happy and not frustrated you feel confident to go back the next day.
I also keep a small note book of my progress and so after a week of playing I can play two scales up and down, the tune London Bridge and I'm working at Good King Wenceslas.
I'm very pleased with my progress and hope other people who have a yearning to learn this wonderful instrument will take the plunge.
Can I also say that this forum is very supportive to all beginners and the help is much appreciated.
Kind regards
Gary.
I've had my Jackie a little over a year now. Like you I wanted to improve my reading. I am particularly fond of waltzes which I sometimes play for dancers. They work very well on the english concertina. Might I suggest 'The Waltz Book' by Bill Matthiesen as a nice source of melodies for your practice. The slow tempo and relatively simple melodies make good pieces for learning.
regards,
Michael
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I just wanted to let you all know that my Jackie has arrived! Other than checking the box for damage and removing the tutor, I'm forcing myself to wait until Christmas morning to open it. I'm reading the tutor and have downloaded the Frank Butler tutor online.
I want to thank everyone who has been so helpful, and I know I'll be back after Christmas!
I've had my Jackie just over a year and it's been great fun. I agree with savouring the anticipation and waiting until Christmas....but it's not a popular approach in this country. Immediate gratification is more the rule.
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OK, so I've now borrowed a non-leaking English. Instead of 6 notes to a bellows stroke, I can now do about 3 consecutive scales to a stroke. Progress indeed.
My background is Morris dancing, so I know a lot of Morris tunes that I can already play on either the harmonica or the melodeon. The obvious thing to do with the concertina is to use some of the simpler ones for practice.
So here's the question: playing in G, I have a phrase that includes the note sequence G, D, G. That's three consecutive notes on two adjacent buttons that I would normally play with the same finger - in this case, my left index finger.
Is the right way forward to learn to do this fast with my left index finger, or to learn something more complex and gymnastic with my other fingers? The key layout does not obviously lend itself to playing notes on the same row with different fingers.
Advice please.
Hmm.
If you hold the concertina, using the pinkie rest, I'd say, play with the same finger and use it as an embellishment.
If you are sitting down, holding your concertina on your knee, and use 4 fingers, you may try to tilt the instrument forward a bit and use two adjuscent fingers on two dajuscent buttons.
Or learn to lift fingers fast enugh, so you'll use two fingers for G/D, but you remove one, that's in a way, fast enough, so it wan't matter.
But from my limited experience, as you start learning 3 note chrods and melody, the question about which fingers to use, will fall off by itself.
But why would you play Morris tunes on an English? Just for the heck of it?
I don't think you'll learn anything special. You already play them on two instruments! Go forward, challenge yourself with the unknown.
I think there is a general rule of never playing two consecutive notes with the same finger, even if you can get away with it with a slow tempo tune it's better to practice using separate fingers. If it is the same note G,G,G you would alternate index and middle fingers. In the case you mentioned G,D,G I would use the middle finger to reach up to the D.
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OK, so I've now borrowed a non-leaking English. Instead of 6 notes to a bellows stroke, I can now do about 3 consecutive scales to a stroke. Progress indeed.
My background is Morris dancing, so I know a lot of Morris tunes that I can already play on either the harmonica or the melodeon. The obvious thing to do with the concertina is to use some of the simpler ones for practice.
So here's the question: playing in G, I have a phrase that includes the note sequence G, D, G. That's three consecutive notes on two adjacent buttons that I would normally play with the same finger - in this case, my left index finger.
Is the right way forward to learn to do this fast with my left index finger, or to learn something more complex and gymnastic with my other fingers? The key layout does not obviously lend itself to playing notes on the same row with different fingers.
Advice please.
Hmm.
If you hold the concertina, using the pinkie rest, I'd say, play with the same finger and use it as an embellishment.
If you are sitting down, holding your concertina on your knee, and use 4 fingers, you may try to tilt the instrument forward a bit and use two adjuscent fingers on two dajuscent buttons.
Or learn to lift fingers fast enugh, so you'll use two fingers for G/D, but you remove one, that's in a way, fast enough, so it wan't matter.
But from my limited experience, as you start learning 3 note chrods and melody, the question about which fingers to use, will fall off by itself.
But why would you play Morris tunes on an English? Just for the heck of it?
I don't think you'll learn anything special. You already play them on two instruments! Go forward, challenge yourself with the unknown.
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After many months of deliberation, I've decided to part with my Lachenal. I just don't play it anymore, mostly because I'm focusing on the CBA now, and I don't want to sit on it when others can be playing it, so up it goes.
Here are links to the Ad, and a page with pictures and an audio sample.
Sorry I've not posted before and am learning how. How much do you want for you Lachenal?
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After many months of deliberation, I've decided to part with my Lachenal. I just don't play it anymore, mostly because I'm focusing on the CBA now, and I don't want to sit on it when others can be playing it, so up it goes.
Here are links to the Ad, and a page with pictures and an audio sample.
Busking
in General Concertina Discussion
Posted
Thankyou for all your input. I thought the story of the lawyer seen busking on the street was particularly good. It's a shame that busking has decreased overall in recent years. It seems to be more accepted in other countries than in the U.S.
Michael