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michael sam wild

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    Playing in F, D minor, G minor on C/G Anglo

    in Teaching and Learning

    Posted

    Thanks John, we had a detailed thread once on why the scale starts with C ( my Grandaughter had asked the logical question, why not A) and came to the conclusion that originally it was A, which was logical, with a later G below that (Gamut, ut = do) As a kid I messed about on piano white keys and was scared of black notes! so the modes came quite easily without all the pseudo Greek names. The white notes plus a few accidentals let you play most trad music.

    Playing in F, D minor, G minor on C/G Anglo

    in Teaching and Learning

    Posted

    David thanks for getting us back on thread ;) that's interesting about sticking with what's generally accepted. I used to be confused about Eflat recordings, thinking they had been speeded up mechanically.( I gotan Eb whistle to play along ) Then I listened to Tony MacMahon, Joe Cooley etc and realised they had higher pitched instruments, although I know fiddlers who take it up a semitone for brightness.

     

     

    I am finding F on the C/G OK. I use the Bflat notes when I want them off the accidental rowfor notes and the Bb and Gminor chords but I noticed that on the Kitty Hayes Remembered CD on Cliffs of Moher in Gminor , when she played on her own for a few bars she fudged the Bb by just tipping the B. When the accompanying musicians came in again they used Bb.. She didn't seem to use Bb in key of F. I find quite a few fiddlers are ambiguous about B/Bflat ( same as F/F sharp) I like that aspect of Irish traditional tunes.

     

     

     

    I did read that the modal tunes may have derived from monastic music on the white notes of their portative organsand this passed intop the folk traditiosn , even to Iceland with the monks who settled it, even before the Vikings

    Cajun Music on Anglo Concertina

    in General Concertina Discussion

    Posted · Edited by michael sam wild

    I once played with some cajun musicians in G on a C single row Hohner melodeon and on a C harmonica .It didn't sound like their instruments did . Can someone explain how the cajun box is tuned and does anybody play cajun on an Anglo?I notice they use a lot of right hand chords for volume I assumewhich also add a distinct feel. So more tahn just octaves which was common with anglos.

    Push And Draw

    in General Concertina Discussion

    Posted · Edited by michael sam wild

    I'm responding to this older post (oh the beauty of archives!) as i'm currently engrossed with playing 'old style' on a C/G Anglo. Kitty Hayes played a lot in F along the C row and it gives some lovely relaxed tunes that are more commonly played in G. The 3 CDs of Kitty Hayes and her friends are great and Peter Laban was a good friend to her. I'd like to hear more from people who think that D and G are not the be all and end all of Irish music ;)

     

     

     

     

    Here's a nice clip of a TG4 Geantrai programme

     

     

     

    Note that she plays with both hands in octaves I suspect

    Playing in F, D minor, G minor on C/G Anglo

    in Teaching and Learning

    Posted · Edited by michael sam wild

    Just as I was about to start this post I noticed that neill had put one up about Rees Wesson and his concertina (C/G) workshop at Gleanings in Shropshire. Rees demonstrates what I mention here and on the other linked videos http://www.youtube.c...be_gdata_player

     

     

    In another post I commented on Kitty Hayes and the way she played a lot in F in the old style. In the days when 'flat' pipes were in C tuning it would have been much more common to play along in F and Dminor. Heres a nice video clip

     

     

    I have been talking to my friend Brian Howard in Sheffield who is a pipe maker. It appears that pipes in D tuning came in at the end of the 19th C ( Brian said it was to make pipes louder for the American halls where most of the Irish pipers like Tuohy changed to D sets) and certainly, as Mick Bramich points out in his book in the section on the key of F on the C/G Anglo, O'Neill has very few tunes with Bflat key signature, though they were common in older tune books in Ireland ( he cites the Darley and McCall Collection from just prior to WW1)

     

    I find fiddlers and flute players and D/G melodeon and concertina players moan if I start to play such tunes! although we have an old boy my age (72) who plays a Clarke C whistle who likes them.

     

    If you listen to Mary MacNamara or Dympna O'Sullivan you find such tunes and Martin Hayes once mentioned playing with older C whistle players like Joe Bane, in F , Dminor , G minor and C. Mickie O'Donoghue played concertina, (a German two row C/G) in the old style along the C row . I trawled through Dan worrall's book but found no mention of playing in F and i also noticed that in the Clare Set rrecordings there was no mention in the sleeve notes of the keys played and the tuning of the concertinas. It's a matter, for me, of playing along and analysing what goes on by ear and using the slowdownwer which I have finally adopted!

     

     

    I was listening to Kitty Hayes and after playing along for a while I got my head round what she was doing and it came along nicely, even the reels in F felt very comfortable ( as a child I started on a C mouthorgan which helps). On the first track she goes from Cooley's Jig in C to Cliffs of Moher in G minor. I found this much nicer than the commonly played D to A minor. When I checked in O'Neill I noted that it gives an F# key signature but that the tune makes little sense , if you change to F natural it flows well so the G minor key is the one you play in.

     

     

    I would be interested in communicating with others who find this topic engaging. I have been working on F in my lessons with with Brian Peters on the key of F for English tunes and like the key and the chords you can use. it's a nice key for singing I find.

     

     

     

    I don't get to Ireland as much as I'd like much nowadays but I understand 'C Sessions' are quite popular, I know they are with players of East Anglian players with C and C/F melodeons.

    hi all! new to the box...

    in General Concertina Discussion

    Posted

    Nice work. Do you play by ear, or read or both. Don't forget to tap your feet in time . it's worth going out for a walk or jog and finding tunes that fit to the rhythm. so many tunes are dance tujes, it helps to do some simple dancing to the tunes and also learn to lilt or diddle or whistle tunes . Tunes with words go in easier and you can recall them better. Bobby Shafto is a nice one .

    Wm. Kimber

    in Concertina History

    Posted

    Fair point Dirge, Kimber Kords come pretty easily, as does the three chord trick on guitar. Iit's how you use them though and Kimber was a great dancer and player for dancers and learned as his dad told him it should be done at the start.'These are the notes Williams etc' so not just a grabber of all the adjacent notes

    hi all! new to the box...

    in General Concertina Discussion

    Posted

    Unless you mean days off work so you can play. That's fine if you can afford it or the boss doesn't mind ;)

     

    I I would agree with Dirge. Set some definite time and be undisturbed. As you sound keen on Irish music 30 minutes with Mick's book and keep a diary and don't be scared to annotate the book inpencil. It's yours. Keep the concertina and your books to hand and easy to get out and stick at it, it builds up quickly. Also practice scales with different combinations of buttons and bellows.

     

     

    Listen to loads of good players on various instruments. I listen to loats of the older players to go back to the source, Mrs Crotty, Tom McCarthy, Tom Carey etc. I'd recommend smooth and slower modern players at first like Mary MacNamara and Dympna O'Sullivan. I love Noel Hill's playing but it both inspired and put me off for a long time as too complicated. Stick to G at first. The Bramich book will introduce you to cross row playing. You could also get Frank Edgely's book to introduce the method along the G row and listen to his CD. John Williams DVD is good to.

     

     

    Bertram Levy's original tutor and Cd is goood to introduce you to playing in C.

     

     

     

    Use The Session site to find out about players , CDs and tune history...YouTube is great as is the Irish Traditional Music web based tutorial system and some players on this network offer Skype lessonsl Comhaltas site has some great videos

    Good luck and enjoy it!:)

    Kitty Hayes Remembered

    in Concertina Videos & Music

    Posted

    Thanks Geoff and Peter. I think I meant that as she seemed to play more like a mouth organ player on a C instrument would; to play in G and D mainly along the rows a G/D might be OK. She played in C that simpler mouth organ fashion as some of the old players did.to get octaves. it's interesting that in Dan Worrall's book he mentions that when she heard an old recording of Michael Doyle (1897-1970) who she had known and held in high regard, she reportedly exclaimed according to Peter 'My God, his playin 'is even more old-fashioned than my own!'

     

     

     

    I I see what you mean Geoff, D middle row would give G in her style. A on inner row would give D

     

     

    I I love exploring the way the older players like William Mullaly, Mrs Crotty, Mickie O'Donoghue and Kitty Hayes to name a few worked along the rows mainly to get keys starting from a note that defined the tune and then adapting the tune and ' fudging' notes here and there. As a mouthorgan player as achild it's my 'intuitive' default approach on the Anglo.

    Kitty Hayes Remembered

    in Concertina Videos & Music

    Posted · Edited by michael sam wild

    I have recently gone back to this lovely CD (2009) of concerts recorded in 2007 before Kitty Hayes passed awy in 2008,

     

     

    She was playing superbly in her eighties , having taken it up again later in life. It is very rhythmic and she plays a C/G anglo along the C row mainly. I have been playing along to work out the keys of the tunes and she was playing in F, Gminor, Dminor, C and occasionally G.

     

     

    She had musicians with her like Peter Laban, Martin Hayes, Josephine Marsh and Eoin O'Neill who coud play in those keys. I find that in a session such keys throw flute players and some fiddlers.

     

     

    As Dan Worrall writes in his book, C was commonly played when concertina players were the main musicians for dancing, I hadn't realised how F came so readily, many of the tunes don't ue the Bflat of the accidental row. As Martin Hayes commented ' Kitty played with great common sense'. By this I assume he meant that she took tunes suited to the instrument and adapted them to the possibilities and limitations of the instrument.

     

     

    For one who is constantly working to play reels in D, G and A in sessions it is a pleasure to relax and play along in these more comfortable keys

     

     

     

    I suppose a G/D Anglo would afford the same way of playing in more usual keys but as they weren't available in the old days the concertina style evolved in other ways. Any ideas.

    If Peter Laban is still on concertina net maybe he could comment.

     

    Thanks

    Bertram's new CD: The Bellow and the Bow

    in General Concertina Discussion

    Posted

    I had a go at playing along to get the keys and was pleased to note that quite a lot of the tunes were somehow familiar to tunes in our tradition but by other names. Obviously there has been two way transfer and the swing element is more pronounced but that's how music evolves. I detected morris, country dance , Scottish, Irish and English tune influences as well as a bit of Kletzmer and minstrel tunes we must have imported back when.

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