Concertina Vs Accordian reeds

[Warcorrespondent]

Hi All, Can anyone tell me what the deal about concertina reeds is? Many of the makers of new mid range concertinas (Marcus, AC Norman etc) use accordion reeds as the basis of their instruments. I've heard these and in fact like them especially the AC Norman (solidly built, well constructed and excellently finished) and by comparison, the sound of some Jones, Wheatstone concertinas can be weak and not so well rounded. What precisely is the difference in the reeds? Is it a manufacturing problem, a housing problem, or something else. Why, if there is more of a demand for what some would suggest are 'proper' concertinas are there so few manufacturers of quality instruments incorporating concertina reeds. Surely with modern milling technology, practically any well equipped engineering show could produce quality reeds suitable for such instruments?

[Pete Dunk]

Hi All, Can anyone tell me what the deal about concertina reeds is? Many of the makers of new mid range concertinas (Marcus, AC Norman etc) use accordion reeds as the basis of their instruments. I've heard these and in fact like them especially the AC Norman (solidly built, well constructed and excellently finished) and by comparison, the sound of some Jones, Wheatstone concertinas can be weak and not so well rounded. What precisely is the difference in the reeds? Is it a manufacturing problem, a housing problem, or something else. Why, if there is more of a demand for what some would suggest are 'proper' concertinas are there so few manufacturers of quality instruments incorporating concertina reeds. Surely with modern milling technology, practically any well equipped engineering show could produce quality reeds suitable for such instruments?

Hello, if you read this information you'll get the idea about the differences between concertina and accordion reeds.

 

There's nothing wrong with accordion reeds but they do sound different to concertina reeds and people have personal preferences about the sound they like. Accordion reed plates take up more room so it's difficult to design a concertina with a large number of buttons (say a 48 button English) in the same frame size as a traditionally built instrument.

 

Concertina Connection make solid brass concertina reed shoes on CNC machines but it must be a pretty slow process compared with twin plates with parallel slots. An accordion reed plate has five parts for two reeds a concertina reed shoe has five parts for one reed and has involved processes like thread tapping and screw making in addition to the dovetailing of the shoe and flaring of the reed slot. It's a very different beastie indeed.

[Warcorrespondent]

Hi All, Can anyone tell me what the deal about concertina reeds is? Many of the makers of new mid range concertinas (Marcus, AC Norman etc) use accordion reeds as the basis of their instruments. I've heard these and in fact like them especially the AC Norman (solidly built, well constructed and excellently finished) and by comparison, the sound of some Jones, Wheatstone concertinas can be weak and not so well rounded. What precisely is the difference in the reeds? Is it a manufacturing problem, a housing problem, or something else. Why, if there is more of a demand for what some would suggest are 'proper' concertinas are there so few manufacturers of quality instruments incorporating concertina reeds. Surely with modern milling technology, practically any well equipped engineering show could produce quality reeds suitable for such instruments?

Hello, if you read this information you'll get the idea about the differences between concertina and accordion reeds.

 

There's nothing wrong with accordion reeds but they do sound different to concertina reeds and people have personal preferences about the sound they like. Accordion reed plates take up more room so it's difficult to design a concertina with a large number of buttons (say a 48 button English) in the same frame size as a traditionally built instrument.

 

Concertina Connection make solid brass concertina reed shoes on CNC machines but it must be a pretty slow process compared with twin plates with parallel slots. An accordion reed plate has five parts for two reeds a concertina reed shoe has five parts for one reed and has involved processes like thread tapping and screw making in addition to the dovetailing of the shoe and flaring of the reed slot. It's a very different beastie indeed.

 

 

Firstly, thank you very much for your insight. So accordion reeds are side by side (parallel) and concertina reeds are over and under. Other than the precision of placement, there would appear to be little difference. Are the screws made specially or can one purchase off the shelf screws? The difficult part of the CNC machining is in the initial 'setup', After that its no problem to churn them out. Dovetailing of the shoe and flaring of the reed, I have no understanding of. Perhaps with your expert knowledge you might enlighten me further. Are there any blueprints for concertina reeds? One thing still eludes me, why do concertina reeds have the concertina 'honk' while accordion reeds can only hint at it?

[Dana Johnson]

Hi All, Can anyone tell me what the deal about concertina reeds is? Many of the makers of new mid range concertinas (Marcus, AC Norman etc) use accordion reeds as the basis of their instruments. I've heard these and in fact like them especially the AC Norman (solidly built, well constructed and excellently finished) and by comparison, the sound of some Jones, Wheatstone concertinas can be weak and not so well rounded. What precisely is the difference in the reeds? Is it a manufacturing problem, a housing problem, or something else. Why, if there is more of a demand for what some would suggest are 'proper' concertinas are there so few manufacturers of quality instruments incorporating concertina reeds. Surely with modern milling technology, practically any well equipped engineering show could produce quality reeds suitable for such instruments?

Hello, if you read this information you'll get the idea about the differences between concertina and accordion reeds.

 

There's nothing wrong with accordion reeds but they do sound different to concertina reeds and people have personal preferences about the sound they like. Accordion reed plates take up more room so it's difficult to design a concertina with a large number of buttons (say a 48 button English) in the same frame size as a traditionally built instrument.

 

Concertina Connection make solid brass concertina reed shoes on CNC machines but it must be a pretty slow process compared with twin plates with parallel slots. An accordion reed plate has five parts for two reeds a concertina reed shoe has five parts for one reed and has involved processes like thread tapping and screw making in addition to the dovetailing of the shoe and flaring of the reed slot. It's a very different beastie indeed.

 

 

Firstly, thank you very much for your insight. So accordion reeds are side by side (parallel) and concertina reeds are over and under. Other than the precision of placement, there would appear to be little difference. Are the screws made specially or can one purchase off the shelf screws? The difficult part of the CNC machining is in the initial 'setup', After that its no problem to churn them out. Dovetailing of the shoe and flaring of the reed, I have no understanding of. Perhaps with your expert knowledge you might enlighten me further. Are there any blueprints for concertina reeds? One thing still eludes me, why do concertina reeds have the concertina 'honk' while accordion reeds can only hint at it?

Much of the difference in the reeds comes from the way they are mounted on the instrument. Concertina reeds are mounted directly on the reed pan, where accordion reed plates are mounted on the tops of the chamber walls. forgetting about all the other differences, this alone generates a different sort of sound.

 

Concertina reeds can be made relatively quickly with appropriate tooling, but the expense of that tooling is considerable, and not justified by the volume of production sustainable by current demand. Accordions out sell concertinas probably more than 100 to 1, and tooling and processes that are economical for that volume of production are much more difficult to support for the amount of concertinas that can be sold. Given this situation, the next viable step down is where we are now. Accordions can have hundreds of reeds and still cost less than a decent concertina, but while much of the process is done in an instant on a punch press for accordion reeds ( with dies that cost thousands of dollars for each reed size ) it takes considerably more time even using CNC tooling and requires hand finishing to produce the more complex concertina reed. Even extremely tech savvy people like Wally Carroll with access to the best equipment ( which has to be paid for ) concertina reeds are still more labor intensive than accordion reeds to make. ( not to mention the rest of the beast )

 

If you like the accordion reed sound, consider yourself lucky and buy a hybrid. There are great ones to chose from, but if you are looking for the quite different sound of a traditionally reeded concertina, either pay someone else to do the work to make one for you or do like some of us have and try making them yourself. Believe me it is quite an adventure. ( much cheaper to buy one )

Dana Johnson

[Pete Dunk]

Firstly, thank you very much for your insight. So accordion reeds are side by side (parallel) and concertina reeds are over and under. Other than the precision of placement, there would appear to be little difference. Are the screws made specially or can one purchase off the shelf screws? The difficult part of the CNC machining is in the initial 'setup', After that its no problem to churn them out. Dovetailing of the shoe and flaring of the reed, I have no understanding of. Perhaps with your expert knowledge you might enlighten me further. Are there any blueprints for concertina reeds? One thing still eludes me, why do concertina reeds have the concertina 'honk' while accordion reeds can only hint at it?

"Other than the precision of placement, there would appear to be little difference." But that's a whole world of difference! The whole reed making/setting process is a baffling thing to me. I've read on this forum recently that the reeds in Jeffries concertinas were quite crudely made and yet they have an undeniable quality of tone and voice that is sought after by discerning players. There is also the viewpoint that the best Wheatstones and Lachenals can easily hold their own alongside the best Jeffries anglos.

 

I have no 'expert knowledge' but I have dabbled with concertina innards from time to time. Concertina reed shoes are dovetailed to be a tight interference fit in the reed pan and therefore don't need to be screwed or waxed in place. The flared reed slots create a different response than the parallel slots of accordion reeds.

 

The like/dislike comparison in tone between accordion and concertina reeds is pretty much an individual thing; both have their merits. Personally I like the sound of concertina reeds in a concertina but the hybrids I've played have all been truly excellent instruments.

 

Pete.

[Greg Jowaisas]

Pete,

I'm not sure I would buy into this business of Jeffries reeds being crudely made. They may not have the "elegance" of Wheatstone Linota reeds but their tolerances can be quite good. Couple good response with a thick, vented reed shoes, good steel, brilliant profiling, a reed pan built to battleship specifications and solid materials and construction throughout plus a lasting style and you have an instrument for the ages.

 

My point is that the Jeffries clan came up with a system (perhaps with no little help from the Crabbs). The system had a distinct sound and filled a need.

We still marvel at the results.

 

Not the most elegant? I'll give you that. Crude? Not in a hundred and twenty-five years!

 

Greg (unabashed Jeffries fan)

[david_boveri]

the reason so many mid range concertina makers use accordion reeds is because they do not make their own reeds. they are bought from companies that make accordion reeds in europe. some of these, yes, might have some special modifications in factory (and even more in house). there is no large firm right now making concertina reeds in whole sale. the people using concertina reeds nowadays are either making their own reeds (very expensive) or contracting them out to a private, one-off contractor (probably equally as expensive).

 

and there is a huge difference in playability between accordion reeds and concertina reeds. the dynamic range on the latter is much larger, as well as much more subtle. concertina reeds get quieter, louder, and have more gradations between than accordion reeds. this is because accordion reeds were designed for a whole separate instrument, and the same subtlety is afforded when put in the frames they were designed for.

 

and if you think the hybrids sound better, it's because you dont know better. this is not said tongue in cheek, or sarcastically. if you spend a lot of time playing and listening to concertina reeds, the hybrids wont sound right to your ears. to be frank, concertina reeds do not have the same sort of tone color that the modern ear is used to hearing, and when they are not played in an ensemble can sound very strange if one is not used it. but fact is the sound is richer, more variable, and blends much better. you're just not used to it--you just dont know better.

 

if you had only heard an electric guitar and never an acoustic, you might like the electric better, and then i would say you didn't know any better as well. give me an accordion over a hybrid any day.

 

**said from the POV of a happy hybrid owner.

[Rod]

the reason so many mid range concertina makers use accordion reeds is because they do not make their own reeds. they are bought from companies that make accordion reeds in europe. some of these, yes, might have some special modifications in factory (and even more in house). there is no large firm right now making concertina reeds in whole sale. the people using concertina reeds nowadays are either making their own reeds (very expensive) or contracting them out to a private, one-off contractor (probably equally as expensive).

 

and there is a huge difference in playability between accordion reeds and concertina reeds. the dynamic range on the latter is much larger, as well as much more subtle. concertina reeds get quieter, louder, and have more gradations between than accordion reeds. this is because accordion reeds were designed for a whole separate instrument, and the same subtlety is afforded when put in the frames they were designed for.

 

and if you think the hybrids sound better, it's because you dont know better. this is not said tongue in cheek, or sarcastically. if you spend a lot of time playing and listening to concertina reeds, the hybrids wont sound right to your ears. to be frank, concertina reeds do not have the same sort of tone color that the modern ear is used to hearing, and when they are not played in an ensemble can sound very strange if one is not used it. but fact is the sound is richer, more variable, and blends much better. you're just not used to it--you just dont know better.

 

if you had only heard an electric guitar and never an acoustic, you might like the electric better, and then i would say you didn't know any better as well. give me an accordion over a hybrid any day.

 

**said from the POV of a happy hybrid owner.

 

Concertina Reeds/Accordian Reeds. Can someone please describe the precise difference in tone to be expected from these two different types of reed construction ?

[Leo]

Concertina Reeds/Accordian Reeds. Can someone please describe the precise difference in tone to be expected from these two different types of reed construction ?

Hi Rod

 

There are a couple of posts here that might help: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=7283

 

Thanks

Leo

[Warcorrespondent]

the reason so many mid range concertina makers use accordion reeds is because they do not make their own reeds. they are bought from companies that make accordion reeds in europe. some of these, yes, might have some special modifications in factory (and even more in house). there is no large firm right now making concertina reeds in whole sale. the people using concertina reeds nowadays are either making their own reeds (very expensive) or contracting them out to a private, one-off contractor (probably equally as expensive).

 

and there is a huge difference in playability between accordion reeds and concertina reeds. the dynamic range on the latter is much larger, as well as much more subtle. concertina reeds get quieter, louder, and have more gradations between than accordion reeds. this is because accordion reeds were designed for a whole separate instrument, and the same subtlety is afforded when put in the frames they were designed for.

 

and if you think the hybrids sound better, it's because you dont know better. this is not said tongue in cheek, or sarcastically. if you spend a lot of time playing and listening to concertina reeds, the hybrids wont sound right to your ears. to be frank, concertina reeds do not have the same sort of tone color that the modern ear is used to hearing, and when they are not played in an ensemble can sound very strange if one is not used it. but fact is the sound is richer, more variable, and blends much better. you're just not used to it--you just dont know better.

 

if you had only heard an electric guitar and never an acoustic, you might like the electric better, and then i would say you didn't know any better as well. give me an accordion over a hybrid any day.

 

**said from the POV of a happy hybrid owner.

 

David,

 

Firstly, I don't own a concertina, but have access to CNC machines and experience. So, assuming that a reed is a strip of steel or brass (irrespective of whether it is a concertina reed or accordion reed) - also from some other posts I've read, it is not the reed but the 'chopping' of the air caused by an airflow through the reed that is important, then logic would suggest that the 'honk' is created by airflow through an extended chamber. Why should two pieces of similar steel resonate in different ways (quiter... louder etc)? My question is basically this, can the sound of a concertina reed be replicated by an accordion reed by altering the airflow path? By the way, the dynamic range of the human ear is much less than the range produced by the any concertina in any event and indeed this varies with age.

[Rod]

Concertina Reeds/Accordian Reeds. Can someone please describe the precise difference in tone to be expected from these two different types of reed construction ?

Hi Rod

 

There are a couple of posts here that might help: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=7283

 

Thanks Leo. I shall follow your advice and see where it leads me. Rod

[Greg Jowaisas]

To my ear the concertina reed has a poignancy, a poking, proding quality.

 

The accordion reed sound profile is more round, less acute to me.

 

Within the concertina reed universe there are variations in sound that people characterize with descriptions of: "Classic Linota sound"; "Jeffries honk";

"typical Jones broad reed"; "A full Edeophone quality"; "A Lachenal metal ended brashness". Lots of individual makers 100+ years ago with their own brand of sound.

 

Most modern accordion reeds come from Antonelli. I've heard they have spent lots of money on machinery and quality control to produce their version of the ultimate "evolved" accordion reed. This seems to be a progression from the individual "hand made tradition" to a consensus of what characteritics embody the "accordion sound" and response. It is interesting that some hybrid makers say they tweak their Antonelli reeds to get their own sound.

 

Apparently some people do not hear much of a difference between hybrids with accordion reeds and instruments with the dovetailed concertina reeds. Some prefer the concertina reed characteristics. Some like the accordion reed sound.

Some fall into polarized camps advocating one or the other.

 

I don't think there is a right or wrong; better or worse to this. It seems a matter of preference.

 

In forming a personal opinion a disadvantage can be lack of exposure to enough different concertinas. We talk about "The Jeffries sound" but every Jeffries of the couple of dozen I've played has been anywhere from a little to vastly different in sound from each other.

 

I think it is a worthwhile exercise to try and analyze what factors make a difference in the sound of instruments. But as Dana Johnson has astutely pointed out, there are SO many variables and factors to a concertina's sound that single answers may not be posssible.

 

Enjoy the journey.

 

Greg

Edited January 24, 2009 by Greg Jowaisas

[Azalin]

and if you think the hybrids sound better, it's because you dont know better. this is not said tongue in cheek, or sarcastically. if you spend a lot of time playing and listening to concertina reeds, the hybrids wont sound right to your ears. to be frank, concertina reeds do not have the same sort of tone color that the modern ear is used to hearing, and when they are not played in an ensemble can sound very strange if one is not used it. but fact is the sound is richer, more variable, and blends much better. you're just not used to it--you just dont know better.

 

Agreed 200%. I've been playing concertina reeds for a few months now and I'm still in heaven everytime I listen to the sound of it. I still think starting to play with an hybrid for the first few years was the best decision I ever made, it was cheaper, faster to get, and gave me a complete idea of what playing concertina was all about. My Edgley is quite honnestly as easy to play as my Dipper, maybe not on the lower notes but there's an overall similar feeling, the only real difference (to me) lies in the sound.

[hjcjones]

I still think starting to play with an hybrid for the first few years was the best decision I ever made, it was cheaper, faster to get, and gave me a complete idea of what playing concertina was all about.

 

That's the crucial point. People starting concertina now have no idea what it was like trying to get hold of instruments 30 or 40 years ago. There was no internet or network of players (apart from the ICA) and only a few dealers, and opportunities to find instruments were limited. There were only 2 or 3 makers still around, with high prices and long waiting lists. The only realistic options were vintage instruments, if you could find one, often in need of restoration.

 

The development of the "hybrid" concertina has allowed many players to get hold of very well made, high-quality instruments at a reasonable price. That can't be bad. Of course there's a compromise, but it seems to me to be worth it.

 

I've always played "real" concertinas, but that's because that was the only choice. If I were starting now I would definitely get a hybrid.

[david_boveri]

Concertina Reeds/Accordian Reeds. Can someone please describe the precise difference in tone to be expected from these two different types of reed construction ?

 

that's a toughy. it's hard to talk about things like that. but, to hear, go to www.concertinas.ca and listen to the kid on the front page, and then listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMzwjNbioTY

 

 

David,

 

Firstly, I don't own a concertina, but have access to CNC machines and experience. So, assuming that a reed is a strip of steel or brass (irrespective of whether it is a concertina reed or accordion reed) - also from some other posts I've read, it is not the reed but the 'chopping' of the air caused by an airflow through the reed that is important, then logic would suggest that the 'honk' is created by airflow through an extended chamber. Why should two pieces of similar steel resonate in different ways (quiter... louder etc)? My question is basically this, can the sound of a concertina reed be replicated by an accordion reed by altering the airflow path? By the way, the dynamic range of the human ear is much less than the range produced by the any concertina in any event and indeed this varies with age.

 

well, it can be nearly replicated, yes. the problem with musical instruments is that millimeters make a difference. by your reasoning, then we should be able to easily replicate stradivarius violins, but we cant. so, the physical difference between right and almost right is so slight, that changing the shape/method of mounting of the reeds can't be afforded to create the same end result. as mark twain said, "the difference between the right word, and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."

 

To my ear the concertina reed has a poignancy, a poking, proding quality.

 

The accordion reed sound profile is more round, less acute to me.

 

Within the concertina reed universe there are variations in sound that people characterize with descriptions of: "Classic Linota sound"; "Jeffries honk";

"typical Jones broad reed"; "A full Edeophone quality"; "A Lachenal metal ended brashness". Lots of individual makers 100+ years ago with their own brand of sound.

 

Most modern accordion reeds come from Antonelli. I've heard they have spent lots of money on machinery and quality control to produce their version of the ultimate "evolved" accordion reed. This seems to be a progression from the individual "hand made tradition" to a consensus of what characteritics embody the "accordion sound" and response. It is interesting that some hybrid makers say they tweak their Antonelli reeds to get their own sound.

 

Apparently some people do not hear much of a difference between hybrids with accordion reeds and instruments with the dovetailed concertina reeds. Some prefer the concertina reed characteristics. Some like the accordion reed sound.

Some fall into polarized camps advocating one or the other.

 

I don't think there is a right or wrong; better or worse to this. It seems a matter of preference.

 

In forming a personal opinion a disadvantage can be lack of exposure to enough different concertinas. We talk about "The Jeffries sound" but every Jeffries of the couple of dozen I've played has been anywhere from a little to vastly different in sound from each other.

 

I think it is a worthwhile exercise to try and analyze what factors make a difference in the sound of instruments. But as Dana Johnson has astutely pointed out, there are SO many variables and factors to a concertina's sound that single answers may not be posssible.

 

Enjoy the journey.

 

Greg

 

although i cant argue with you on matters of preference (what's the point?) surely matters of response are not subjective. sometime we should really make those tests we talked about to objectively measure the response times and dynamic ranges of reeds, and then we could really get some answers!

 

and if you think the hybrids sound better, it's because you dont know better. this is not said tongue in cheek, or sarcastically. if you spend a lot of time playing and listening to concertina reeds, the hybrids wont sound right to your ears. to be frank, concertina reeds do not have the same sort of tone color that the modern ear is used to hearing, and when they are not played in an ensemble can sound very strange if one is not used it. but fact is the sound is richer, more variable, and blends much better. you're just not used to it--you just dont know better.

 

Agreed 200%. I've been playing concertina reeds for a few months now and I'm still in heaven everytime I listen to the sound of it. I still think starting to play with an hybrid for the first few years was the best decision I ever made, it was cheaper, faster to get, and gave me a complete idea of what playing concertina was all about. My Edgley is quite honnestly as easy to play as my Dipper, maybe not on the lower notes but there's an overall similar feeling, the only real difference (to me) lies in the sound.

 

i would disagree. there is a huge difference in response and ease of play between traditional and hybrid concertinas. when i play a traditional-reeded concertina, i feel like i have my hands taken out from behind my back. i feel free to get at the music instead of fighting the instrument.

 

they say after you play a stradivarius you will play *your* violin much better. i find the same for concertinas. when i play a really good concertina, with traditional reeds, i find out all the things i can do, and go back to my concertina and make it do all those things. i didnt think i could do all the cranns, or do vibrato, but then i played on a couple carrolls and all the cranns popped out like machine guns and i could find all the subtlety in the world. so, yes i disagree that there is no difference beyond sound!

[Warcorrespondent]

David I like your concept of "sometime we should really make those tests we talked about to objectively measure the response times and dynamic ranges of reeds, and then we could really get some answers". Its the only way to proceed. maybe we could begin the process of developing the experimental framework. Would be a cool way to illustrate a point.

[david_boveri]

David I like your concept of "sometime we should really make those tests we talked about to objectively measure the response times and dynamic ranges of reeds, and then we could really get some answers". Its the only way to proceed. maybe we could begin the process of developing the experimental framework. Would be a cool way to illustrate a point.

 

the original idea was to test the response time of a set of reeds on a particular concertina, to see if they were really as fast as they felt. this would call for measuring how long it took for the harmonic system of each particular reed to achieve full resonance (i.e. that of it's intended pitch) when the appropriate amount of energy was added to the system (i.e. reed). this does not account for fourier analysis (which would tell us the nature of the sound produced), nor does it account for when the system would start to vibrate, or how long the duration of this pre-resonant vibration would occur.

 

there are several problems involved in this basic, preliminary idea. what is the ideal speed of air (i.e. energy) to add to the system (reed) and how do you apply this *pressure, and how do you measure all of the variables? a human pulling a bellows would simply not work--that is not consistent. as far as i can tell, a **vacuum system (where we can regulate the pressure of the vacuum) or a bellows with a weight on it designed to create a specific pressure would be the best way.

 

ideally, we would have to measure all the reeds at all pressures, ranging from pressure that is not sufficient to produce resonance all the way until the reed goes flat. but for expediency's sake, let us say we measure all the concertinas at a pressure which produces resonance at an acceptable volume. there is of course problems this as well, as different reeds may produce different amplitudes at different pressures. although this would be a useful experiment in itself (the relationship between pressure and amplitude between concertinas), the question still remains of how to best choose one pressure for this experiment. note that this may not be possible, and that the aforementioned pressure experiment may need to be completed prior to the "speed of response" experiment, but i will ignore that for the time being.

 

to measure the variables, it is essential record the harmonic output of the system through recording the sound of the reed in resonance. of course it would be very useful to use a highspeed camera to figure out when the reed reaches resonance (here we go beyond my understanding of the properties of free reeds, and of resonance in general. i do not know when a reed is in resonance, e.g. does the reed reach maximum oscillation/resonate across the entire amplitude spectrum, or only at one point?), or to measure the exact vibration of the reeds, but that could be done in a separate experiment. the "tape" would need to be recording both before and after the pressure was applied to the system, to make sure that we can record the time from when the pressure was applied and when the reed achieves resonance.

 

it may be difficult to determine when the pressure was applied to the system initially. if it is a vacuum, then we may be able to have the start of the pressure on tape, but this is problematic. we would first need to do experiments to find out when or how full suction is applied after the sound of the blower starts. if we were to have the vacuum already running, and then open a door/pad, then there may be extra negative pressure applied to the door, which would create more pressure than we intended on the reed, thus changing the results. the same problems go for a bellows with a weight on it. of course yet again we find a new experiment to do, that of figuring out what sort of extra pressure is applied to a reed before the pressure normalizes (especially in irish players in the noel hill school, who play very staccato, and with constant pressure against the pads/flaps).

 

once this is all figured out, measuring the response would be easy. all you have to do is run the file through an oscilliscope to find out when the reed starts at the desired pitch. if you wanted to also measure when the reed starts to vibrate prior to reaching harmonic motion, then you could use the same files for this. of course, several trials per reed would have to be done.

 

*i am not sure if i can use the terms air speed and pressure interchangeably

**vacuum being analogous to a household vacuum, not a space with zero air

[Tootler]

The choice is not so clear cut as some are making out.

 

When I bought my concertina, of the ones available was a new built concertina with vintage concertina reeds in it. It had the best tone of all but the reeds were generally slow speaking, especially the lower pitch reeds. and the bass reeds needed a really hard shove from the bellows to get them to speak at all. As a result I went for a hybrid and am very satisfied with the result. It has good tone and is responsive - more responsive than my playing abilities - and has good tone.

 

Geoff