Irene S. Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 (edited) Hi there, since I'm not familiar with the history and the whereabouts of the projects, the following may or may not be helpful; apologies in advance if it isn't.................................. if the crucial factor here is cost, there may be other ways around the hurdles. Ruediger ... Duet International was intended and heralded as the third in a series of compilations. Anglo International and English International were previously, and I believe successfully, marketed and released, and I think are still available for purchase and still selling. Experience in production and marketing already exists, so I suspect that this is very unlikely to be the reason for delays. (By the way, although I am personally a member of the ICA myself, the membership levels are so low in comparison to the numbers of players of all systems around that I can't see them as being a particularly useful tool for the purposes you suggest . That'll be me drummed out of the Brownies then!! ) By the way, I find it strange that,although I posted originally with a query as to what had happened, and more specifically, wondering if anyone else was, like me, still waiting patiently for the CDs to be released, I find it mildly amusing that the posts are split between those indicating that they too are keen to see it, and those offering advice on how to go about it - a different thing altogether! I suspect that the originators of the earlier two compilations know their stuff, and understand the economics and mechanics of the whole thing pretty well, being in that business already. Edited July 9, 2014 by Irene S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Of course many of us are waiting for the release of the promised Duet International. Such recordings are so inspirational. Imagine the impact of the arrival of the first Records and Waxed Cylinders.... American cousins used to send the latest Records of Irish musicians back home and this helped the spread of new tunes. The rise in popularity of the Duet Concertinas must be in large part due to the Stage performances and recordings of Alexander Prince et al. We find today, even when we have access to virtually any recorded material, that the inspiration gained by hearing something new can change our direction. I re-gained much enthusiasm for playing the EC when I recieved English International and it has kept me going, in isolation, and helped me to develope my playing . For me it was getting Ralph Jordan's CD of Maccann playing and then paying him a visit just after, which got me interested in playing Duets. Being able to listen to the great players from the vintage period is a revelation but to also be able to listen to the current crop of Duetists would boost interest in this type of concertinas and be of great help to those of us learning in isolation... which probably includes most of us. Maybe we should try to keep this topic on the front page untill we can convince Graham to give us the goods. Edited July 10, 2014 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 surely what happened, was that the "Crash" created roadblocks that have been tough to clear. what about a "Kickstarter" type pay-in-advance thing for Duet International? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 surely what happened, was that the "Crash" created roadblocks that have been tough to clear. what about a "Kickstarter" type pay-in-advance thing for Duet International? Well, as I read all this Cee, it would appear that Al, at least, is saying financial considerations are not the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 surely what happened, was that the "Crash" created roadblocks that have been tough to clear. what about a "Kickstarter" type pay-in-advance thing for Duet International? Well, as I read all this Cee, it would appear that Al, at least, is saying financial considerations are not the problem. Thanks for all your positive comments. My part of the projects is/was to locate players and recordings new and old.Possibly develop new and interesting players who need a bit of time and help to provide the quality recordings required for the collection.This I quickly add was a joint partnership with Graham who is a sound and recording engineer and he picked up slight hesitations,timing problems,recording qualities etc and he made the final decision on what to use, or not.Some used this information over a period of months and many became better players because of it.Some players although brilliant individual players did not initially take their recordings seriously enough and a few missed out. The financial side of the recordings was all handled by Graham who financed some recordings in recording studios and amazingly has already paid for some on the Duet project. There is a large initial payout a three CD set plus a booklet with photo's ,artwork etc costs a lot of money. These initial costs are offset by dealers such as Button Box, the surge of initial orders by Cnet and friends of the artists.. As far as I know Anglo International is over break even point ,English International was approaching the same, but I have no figures to offer you as that is Graham's business. The interest in Duet playing has increased dramatically over the last four years .New Duets are being made and Duet playing examples are fuelling the drive for this fantastic instrument. In my opinion the Duet will outstrip the demand for the other systems once it's versatility in realised. When I hear someone like Maurice Harvey ,a young lad in his early teens playing the duet like I have never heard it before,I admit to being a bit frustrated that I cannot share it with you. All of the recordings collected are with Graham on his desk,unless Graham definitely decides to proceed I can do nothing but wait with you all for his decision.I personally hope he is positive and goes for it,I certainly do not wish to fall out with Graham at all,we remain friends and whatever way he goes that will not change. There is a tremendous amount of work for Graham to do ,I have offered to help but it is in Graham's court.If he does it it will be of a high standard that he sets himself and that is another reason that I hope Graham sits down at his desk at the next free gap in his work schedule and gets on with it. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogspawn Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Al The duet may be logical, versatile and have great potential, but I can't see it replacing the Anglo where natural punchiness is required, i.e. for dance music. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene S. Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) Ralphie Jordan played his for dance music in more than one band, with a good degree of punchiness as far as my ears were concerned. I suspect a lot is dependent on the player and the style ... and that is one thing about duet players ... their styles are all very different, and mainly, as I understand it because in more recent years they have mostly had to teach themselves in isolation with the obvious variation that that gives rise to. Edited July 10, 2014 by Irene S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) i believe mr. day with that last post has provided a wealth of ontext and backstory that sets a new bar for transparency, not that anyone "owes" intel on their recording projects....but let's face it, to love is to obsess and to want the scoop....that's us, all right.... hmmm....this is all most interesting.... i personally wouldn't be waiting with bated breath for a two or three-cd recording that is a-in large part a roundup of vintage recordings most of which are available out there with a little effort; and b-populated with a good percentage of selections from players who while talented and promising, have some musical maturing to do to yet....so perhaps the delay is not a bad thing... well, if mr. day is correct about the exciting groundswell of duet playing out there....perhaps young maurice harvey and other players are just gonna do cds of their own, and there is going to be a nice array of choices out there before too long... [[in my opinion the Duet will outstrip the demand for the other systems once it's versatility in realised.]]] you really think? i'm not seeing it, but i think this is a great ongoing topic for discussion and debate...it is true that i was just looking the other day at those hayden clips made by "Boney" to illustrate the hayden's capacity to handle single-note melody music at a fast clip...he made his case. but i'm not yet convinced you could keep that up right-hand-only during an all-night sesh or dance...anglo and EC...give right-hand relief, by different means...perhaps if one's duet had a wide overlap of notes common to both sides, you could use overlap notes to switch off if you wanted to play a few hours of just=melody.... Edited July 11, 2014 by ceemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 i believe mr. day with that last post has provided a wealth of ontext and backstory that sets a new bar for transparency, not that anyone "owes" intel on their recording projects....but let's face it, to love is to obsess and to want the scoop....that's us, all right.... hmmm....this is all most interesting.... i personally wouldn't be waiting with bated breath for a two or three-cd recording that is a-in large part a roundup of vintage recordings most of which are available out there with a little effort; and b-populated with a good percentage of selections from players who while talented and promising, have some musical maturing to do to yet....so perhaps the delay is not a bad thing... well, if mr. day is correct about the exciting groundswell of duet playing out there....perhaps young maurice harvey and other players are just gonna do cds of their own, and there is going to be a nice array of choices out there before too long... [[in my opinion the Duet will outstrip the demand for the other systems once it's versatility in realised.]]] you really think? i'm not seeing it, but i think this is a great ongoing topic for discussion and debate...it is true that i was just looking the other day at those hayden clips made by "Boney" to illustrate the hayden's capacity to handle single-note melody music at a fast clip...he made his case. but i'm not yet convinced you could keep that up right-hand-only during an all-night sesh or dance...anglo and EC...give right-hand relief, by different means...perhaps if one's duet had a wide overlap of notes common to both sides, you could use overlap notes to switch off if you wanted to play a few hours of just=melody.... Thanks for your interesting comments . The Maurice Harvey recordings were originally made by his father who was then secretary to the ICA and were donated to me by one of many who were interested in the International projects. Maurice shortly after his recordings were made sadly got Polio, which made him bedridden for many years. It left him disabled and he became a bit of a recluse.I met him during this period and never saw him again.He was last heard of in the Littlehampton area where his duet concertina was sold at a Steam Engine Fair.I am not sure whether he is still alive now.He sadly never played the concertina again after his illness and took up the guitar.It was considered by those who knew him at the time as a reaction to his father who realised his great potential as a concertina player and perhaps pushed him too hard in those early years. These recordings ,plus some early ICA recordings, old 78s provide an insight into the players who are no longer with us and may have been lost forever.My thanks to all the donations received to help me put these collections together. I will reply later to the other points raised. Thanks again for your interest. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakeman Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I'm a little confused by the answers/contributions on this subject. I took some trouble -after being asked - to send several recordings of my Crane duet playing for this CD. Some time ago I bumped into Jon Boden at a gig who said " I believe we are on a CD together ?" He too had contributed- despite his very busy schedule . He's a McCann player . I hope the Duet International does see the light of day - but it is probably being overtaken by other projects/ technology. I, for one, have posted half a dozen videos of my playing on Youtube ( or see them elsewhere on concertina.net website) Now I am also doing solo gigs I should be doing a CD of my own, so perhaps I should crack on with that. Best wishes to all " squeezers" out there. I'm currently in my camper van, on a beach in Brittany, listening to curlews, skylarks and noisy gulls. Hoping for a session in Tregastel tonight. "Let the music keep your spirits high." PS - For any players out there, among my summer gigs, I am booked for four days at Cornwall Folk Festival in Wadebridge.(Aug 22- 25) Between performances , it would be fun to meet up with other concertina players ( at least, the ones I don't already know ) and have a chat/ play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Thanks Geoff for your posting and you are one of many fine players that I approached for this project ,after hearing about your fine playing ,singing and accompaniment.I have been rather embarrassed by the long delay on this project and it is rather difficult for me to answer the numerous questions on this subject from many players like yourself Geoff who ask me what is happening. I spent well over a year putting this all together and passing it over as a package for completion. Many players spent hours practising and then recording their submissions for consideration and then it came to a halt.We are now nearing the end of the serious economic situation that stopped people spending their money now is the time for it's release. Al PS Your CD would be very well received Geoff. Edited July 11, 2014 by Alan Day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 In my opinion the Duet will outstrip the demand for the other systems once it's versatility in realised. I don't believe that at all. Apart from discussing the general "punchiness" of given types of concertinas IMO it has to be be considered that preferring one system is very much a matter of getting a long with the respecting "logic". This will of course be true of the Duet as well, but can't be denied the Anglo-German and the English system either, can it? As for me, having been unsure as to what system to chose before making the choice, there is no doubt that the English system is the one for me after having discovered what just I myself am able to do with it from my musical background and touch to the instrument. It's simply the fitting system, as the Anglo or Duet will be for others. They're undoubtedly both very sophisticated inventions, as are the various Duet systems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogspawn Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 ...it is true that i was just looking the other day at those hayden clips made by "Boney" to illustrate the hayden's capacity to handle single-note melody music at a fast clip...he made his case. but i'm not yet convinced you could keep that up right-hand-only during an all-night sesh or dance...anglo and EC...give right-hand relief, by different means...perhaps if one's duet had a wide overlap of notes common to both sides, you could use overlap notes to switch off if you wanted to play a few hours of just=melody.... I've considered trying to play in the overlapping octave on my 55-button Crane and splitting the notes between left and right for speed, but I haven't pursued it. One reason is that my existing melody playing is mostly in the upper right, i.e. the part that doesn’t overlap. If I used the bottom octave on the right when playing in C or D I wouldn't have a fourth below on the right hand needed for plagal tunes. The only tune I actually play in the lower D octave is Planxty Irwin because it goes quite high and doesn't fall below C which is the lowest note I have on the right. If playing in G, which I do play in the bottom right-hand octave, there are only four buttons in the overlap on the left. Another reason is that any split would be arbitrary and unintuitive. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I did not really want this discussion to go off at a tangent, but my thoughts on the future of Duets is based on the following that many of us are here because of the upsurge in the interest in Folk music late fifties early sixties.My interest in concertina's was driven by playing music for Morris Dancing and then as I progressed with the instrument for English Country Dancing, much later Traditional Dance music of Central France. I joined many who thought that the Anglo was the best instrument for this type of music.It has been consistently discussed that for ITM it is the best,although a few have shown that even here an English can do the same job. Looking to the future it seems to me that for music, other than Folk, the Duet could become the more popular concertina. The Anglo and English are perfectly capable of being played in many ways, but the increase in popularity of the Duet shows an increasing interest in what the Duet has to offer.I am probably completely wrong and I shall be long gone to be proved right ,or wrong. Please start another thread if you wish to take this further.It is only my opinion and I will not be unhappy if you disagree. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogspawn Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Apologies for the hijack! I too hope that the DI set will be forthcoming and would be happy to subscribe in advance if that were an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You are right of course Ceemonster the recordings will eventually creep onto the net,but it is nice to get them all on one package. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Laban Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 The Anglo and English are perfectly capable of being played in many ways, As a case in point I heard someone do a nice job on a piece of ragtime, on an anglo, last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Please start another thread if you wish to take this further. OK. I've just done that. The new thread can be found here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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