From accordion to concertina

[Koko]

Hi all,

 

I'm a french student, and have played the accordion for about 10 years. My main problem is that I moved to Italy in september, and I can't bring my big 120 bass accordion in bus or train, without being completely scared. That's why I thought about changing my instrument to a smaller one. I always wanted to try the concertina, and it might be the time to change

 

But, I don't know which kind of concertina to choose. I've done some research, and here is what I'm feeling :

- Anglo : diatonic and bisonoric, might be a bit too much change

- English : chromatic, and monosonoric, but, is the octave range ok? I'm fearing of being limitated.

- Duet : looks quite similar to the accordion, but might be a bit too much similar.

 

Now are the questions :

- First, am I right?

- Which kind of music can we play on which concertina? Because I've found a lot about the link between the anglo system and the Irish music, but not that much about the others, expetially about the duet system.

- I intend to play more for myself, quite always in solo, and don't think about joining a band right now, which system is the most indicated?

 

Seriously, I'm a bit lost, only 3 systems, and I can't really see their specificities, except the purely technical ones. If someone already played accordion before trying the concertina, can he please share his experience?

 

Now, if you arrive here, it means you have probably read all my topic, and gone across my hesitating and lousy english, so, thanks a lot

 

Tristan

[Dirge]

Hi all,

 

I'm a french student, and have played the accordion for about 10 years. My main problem is that I moved to Italy in september, and I can't bring my big 120 bass accordion in bus or train, without being completely scared. That's why I thought about changing my instrument to a smaller one. I always wanted to try the concertina, and it might be the time to change

 

But, I don't know which kind of concertina to choose. I've done some research, and here is what I'm feeling :

- Anglo : diatonic and bisonoric, might be a bit too much change

- English : chromatic, and monosonoric, but, is the octave range ok? I'm fearing of being limitated.

- Duet : looks quite similar to the accordion, but might be a bit too much similar.

 

Now are the questions :

- First, am I right?

- Which kind of music can we play on which concertina? Because I've found a lot about the link between the anglo system and the Irish music, but not that much about the others, expetially about the duet system.

- I intend to play more for myself, quite always in solo, and don't think about joining a band right now, which system is the most indicated?

 

Seriously, I'm a bit lost, only 3 systems, and I can't really see their specificities, except the purely technical ones. If someone already played accordion before trying the concertina, can he please share his experience?

 

Now, if you arrive here, it means you have probably read all my topic, and gone across my hesitating and lousy english, so, thanks a lot

 

Tristan

Hi Tristan, welcome to Cnet.

 

Your English is a lot better than my French for starters.

 

About 4 years ago I got fed up with my 120b piano accordion, both its size and having the bass chords fixed by the manufacturer not me. I wanted to play classical music again, particularly, (I learnt the piano once upon a time) and I wanted something smaller and more portable, so I also investigated concertinas. I concluded I should get a duet, and bought one. Now, several years on, I am sure I made the right decision. I choose my pieces from the classical keyboard repertoire, and expect to play the music as written, solo with no need for accompaniment. It's a lovely instrument; gorgeous sound, and extremely expressive. I love it and what it can do.

 

The only accordion skill that is transferable to duet is a feel for the bellows; nothing else is the same. The buttons are all single note, no chords; you have to select your own. It took a year before I knew I was going to stick with it; then I sold my accordion (no going back from then!)

 

Incidentally the biggest duets are perhaps 25cm each way. Mine goes hand luggage on the aeroplane.

[Daniel Hersh]

Hi all,

 

I'm a french student, and have played the accordion for about 10 years. My main problem is that I moved to Italy in september, and I can't bring my big 120 bass accordion in bus or train, without being completely scared. That's why I thought about changing my instrument to a smaller one. I always wanted to try the concertina, and it might be the time to change

 

But, I don't know which kind of concertina to choose. I've done some research, and here is what I'm feeling :

- Anglo : diatonic and bisonoric, might be a bit too much change

- English : chromatic, and monosonoric, but, is the octave range ok? I'm fearing of being limitated.

- Duet : looks quite similar to the accordion, but might be a bit too much similar.

 

Now are the questions :

- First, am I right?

- Which kind of music can we play on which concertina? Because I've found a lot about the link between the anglo system and the Irish music, but not that much about the others, expetially about the duet system.

- I intend to play more for myself, quite always in solo, and don't think about joining a band right now, which system is the most indicated?

 

Seriously, I'm a bit lost, only 3 systems, and I can't really see their specificities, except the purely technical ones. If someone already played accordion before trying the concertina, can he please share his experience?

 

Now, if you arrive here, it means you have probably read all my topic, and gone across my hesitating and lousy english, so, thanks a lot

 

Tristan

Hi Tristan, welcome to Cnet.

 

Your English is a lot better than my French for starters.

 

About 4 years ago I got fed up with my 120b piano accordion, both its size and having the bass chords fixed by the manufacturer not me. I wanted to play classical music again, particularly, (I learnt the piano once upon a time) and I wanted something smaller and more portable, so I also investigated concertinas. I concluded I should get a duet, and bought one. Now, several years on, I am sure I made the right decision. I choose my pieces from the classical keyboard repertoire, and expect to play the music as written, solo with no need for accompaniment. It's a lovely instrument; gorgeous sound, and extremely expressive. I love it and what it can do.

 

The only accordion skill that is transferable to duet is a feel for the bellows; nothing else is the same. The buttons are all single note, no chords; you have to select your own. It took a year before I knew I was going to stick with it; then I sold my accordion (no going back from then!)

 

Incidentally the biggest duets are perhaps 25cm each way. Mine goes hand luggage on the aeroplane.

I play piano accordion too, though I played Anglo concertina (and piano) before that. I've recently started playing duet too (started on Hayden, now learning Crane) and agree with Dirge's recommendation. Your next choice would be which duet system to learn, which is yet another decision...

[Koko]

Thanks a lot, both of you for your answers. So you're advising me the duet concertina.

 

@Dirge -> Can you give me examples of classical pieces do you learn?

 

@Daniel -> Which duet system? what do you mean? there are many duet systems?

 

Is the duet concertina still ok for playing folk music sometimes, and stuff like that?

 

Thank you very much.

 

Tristan

[TomB-R]

A duet does seem to make good sense, but they are the rarest form of concertina, Chris Algar is a well respected UK concertina dealer and his website gives a guide as to what you can expect to pay

http://www.concertina.co.uk/

There's the Hayden system Elise available new, but a lack of instruments to upgrade to in that system.

 

 

 

[Leonard]

@Daniel -> Which duet system? what do you mean? there are many duet systems?

 

 

Informative article on the non forum part of concertina.net:

 

"So You Think You Want to Buy a Duet Concertina?" http://www.concertin..._duetguide.html

By Ivan Viehoff (January 2005)

[Stephen Chambers]

@Daniel -> Which duet system? what do you mean? there are many duet systems?

 

 

Informative article on the non forum part of concertina.net:

 

"So You Think You Want to Buy a Duet Concertina?" http://www.concertin..._duetguide.html

 

You can also read-up on them at the Concertina Library website under:

 

Maccann Duet Concertina

 

and

 

Other Duet Concertina Systems

Edited October 10, 2010 by Stephen Chambers

[Daniel Hersh]

@Daniel -> Which duet system? what do you mean? there are many duet systems?

Informative article on the non forum part of concertina.net:So You Think You Want to Buy a Duet Concertina?" http://www.concertin..._duetguide.html

You can also read-up on them at the Concertina Library website under:

Maccann Duet Concertina and

Other Duet Concertina Systems

Excellent suggestions. I would add that all of these articles were written before the introduction of the Elise Hayden Duet, which at $369 is a good starter instrument. And a bonus for you, the Hayden system has some similarity to the single-note rows of the left-hand "stradella" set-up of a piano accordion. The problem, as Tom pointed out in another thread, is that there's not a good mid-price Hayden available if you want to move up from the Elise at some point. Facing this situation myself I decided to try to switch to the Crane system and am now learning to play a 48-button Crane (a good vintage Lachenal). I'm coming along fairly well, but in retrospect it certainly would be easier if I had started on Crane - I just didn't want to spend the money at the time because I wasn't sure if I was going to stick with duet concertina.

 

To answer your other question, Hayden and Crane are fine for folk music from my own experience.

[Dirge]

 

@Dirge -> Can you give me examples of classical pieces do you learn?

 

Tristan

 

Really I'll have a go at anything.

 

How about a bit of Handel: allemande2.mp3 (A bit scratchy; work in progress). An allemande from one of his keyboard suites.

 

And an arrangement for piano of L'Apres midi d'un faune by Debussey (which the regulars here have already heard. Also an unpolished gem, ho ho.)

 

The spell checker suggests 'Lampreys' for 'L'Apres', incidentally. I rather like that. (I looked in the hope it would have a correction with the accent but no chance...)

 

In fact if I followed Mr Microsoft's suggestions it could be called 'Lampreys midi d'Azur Fauntleroy' That's rather splendid too, if you ask me.

[Leo]

Hi Tristan

 

I played an accordion as a child, and as I got older I wanted to play a little music to help with short term memory loss. The in and out of the Anglo, like a harmonica was beyond my comprehension, and I didn't know too much of the Duet. I chose an English concertina for personal enjoyment and am happy with the choice. The logic made better sense to me.

 

The front page of http://www.concertina.net/ is a wealth of information. Here is their page on the English:

http://www.concertina.net/guide_english.html

 

You asked the range of notes on an English concertina, and there is some useful information on http://www.concertina.com/ here:

http://www.concertina.com/fingering/images/english48-W842H736.gif

On the main page, there is also has information on the duet on the top menu bar

 

http://www.concertina.info/ is another good resource. Here is picture of the layout of buttons showing the range of notes too:

http://www.concertina.info/tina.faq/images/finger6.htm

 

Thanks

Leo

[Koko]

Thank you all for your replies

 

So, looks like everyone is advising me a chromatic accordion, which is fine to me, because diatonic is a bit weird according to me, but if you add the bisonoric property, it will be a catastrophe in my hands. (but it would be a nice change to try someday)

 

So now, looks like it's between duet and english. For the english, I can see a negative point, about its ergonomics : holding the instrument with only one finger should be a bit unconfortable. Moreover I can't find a very logical order in the notes position...

 

For the duet, the main problem is the price : the Elise seems to be a nice instrument, but it has only 36 keys, which can be quite limitating. Moreover, there's the problem of a mid-price duet...

 

So, what to choose, I need to think about it... Maybe choosing the anglo, and do the change I talked before.

 

Tristan

[Jim Albea]

...Moreover, there's the problem of a mid-price duet...

Tristan

 

Wim Wakker is coming out with a mid-priced Hayden next year:

hybrid Wakker Hayden

 

And I hear that the Button Box may be reviving it's mid-priced Hayden project. Previous discussion:

hybrid Morse Hayden

[Leo]

Thank you all for your replies

 

..............

 

.............. For the english, I can see a negative point, about its ergonomics : holding the instrument with only one finger should be a bit unconfortable. Moreover I can't find a very logical order in the notes position...

 

..............

 

So, what to choose, I need to think about it... Maybe choosing the anglo, and do the change I talked before.

 

Tristan

Hi Tristan

 

Would a chord chart help with the logic of an English concertina?

http://www.concertina.net/wm_english_chords.html

 

The white keys on a piano would be in the middle two columns/rows, and the accidentals (sharps/flats) are on the outside. Sheet music is written on lines and spaces. On the English concertina, the lines are on the left, and the spaces are on the right. It took me two weeks in the beginning, before I went ahah! I get it.

 

This lady explains it very well:

 

If you've some time, one of our members posted a nice video in 16 parts for an introduction in how they work here:

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5648&view=findpost&p=61361

 

Holding with the thumbs, with support from the little/pinky finger to help in positioning the buttons is not as difficult or uncomfortable as it sounds. They're not that heavy. Mr. Wheatsone did well in his design, and it's held for over 150 years.

 

Either choice would probably fill your needs, but the more information you have makes the choice easier.

 

Thanks

Leo

[Koko]

After a short night of thinking, I'm going to try to get a duet concertina.

 

Has someone personally tried the Elise? Cause I see lots of stuff about the rochelle and the Jackie/Jack, but didn't manage to find something about this one....

[JimLucas]

Has someone personally tried the Elise? Cause I see lots of stuff about the rochelle and the Jackie/Jack, but didn't manage to find something about this one....

Try

this Topic

.

[Daniel Hersh]

Has someone personally tried the Elise? Cause I see lots of stuff about the rochelle and the Jackie/Jack, but didn't manage to find something about this one....

Try this Topic.

I have an Elise, I've played it a lot and I'm very happy with it for the price.

[Koko]

Thanks for the link to the post. When I was looking a bit deeper into the forum, I've found some interesting things about the instrument, that are not really encouraging...

 

First : is there NO next-level concertina under 4000$?

 

Then, I've found this interesting stuff from a member of the forum :

But the Elise is simply missing some notes in each octave

That's a problem... A big problem :s

 

Moreover, the 34 keys only is a bit discouraging... I wouldn't like to buy a draft instrument.

 

Finally, I see a new problem : duet concertinas can go up to 70 or more keys. Hey, if I have to change my instrument, it's not to get another accordion!

 

So, back the begining. Finally, the anglo system could be more interesting to me, but I fear being stuck to folk music.

[TomB-R]

So, back the begining. Finally, the anglo system could be more interesting to me, but I fear being stuck to folk music.

 

Have another look at the English? Many more instruments around than Duets, prices for nice vintage instruments lower than for Anglo,....

 

And there's what players like Juliette Daum can do with it.....

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=juliettedaum

 

Also member Ratface of this forum and others....