Fiona Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Hi - Further to my last post about asking for advice on selling my Jeffries, I recieved an offer which I accepted. Unforatunately the buyer, a heavyweight boxer on these boards, has pulled out after going off the radar for a bit. I have, however, taken the time to take it to an expert to have it checked over and valued. It is deemed to be an early Jeffries of around the period 1870 and in C/G old pitch. The sound is considered to be of reasonable quality but the cosmetics are needing to be taken care of!! I have put it on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=260462491467 Regards Fiona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Hersh Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Thanks for letting us know. A question for Fiona: you say on your Ebay listing that "access could not be had to ascertain the condition of the reeds". Was that because the endbolts are so tight that they can't be unscrewed? And a question for anyone who might know: both ends (see the pics that Fiona posted earlier) seem to show twice the number of endbolts/endscrews that one usually sees. Has anyone seen this before? Daniel Hi - Further to my last post about asking for advice on selling my Jeffries, I recieved an offer which I accepted. Unforatunately the buyer, a heavyweight boxer on these boards, has pulled out after going off the radar for a bit. I have, however, taken the time to take it to an expert to have it checked over and valued. It is deemed to be an early Jeffries of around the period 1870 and in C/G old pitch. The sound is considered to be of reasonable quality but the cosmetics are needing to be taken care of!! I have put it on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=260462491467 Regards Fiona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 And a question for anyone who might know: both ends seem to show twice the number of endbolts/endscrews that one usually sees. Has anyone seen this before? Daniel, Those are small woodscrews in the corners (not extra endbolts), holding the ends onto the wooden sides of the instrument. It's something you'd see on the earliest metal-ended Jeffries (or JoJo Webb's English concertina) built by George Jones, and in instruments by Lachenal, Wheatstone etc. In other respects (especially the sharpness of the lip around the metal ends) this one would remind me of an early John Crabb 38-key that I once had, and sold to a lady in North Clare - I think Mark Davies has it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 And a question for anyone who might know: both ends (see the pics that Fiona posted earlier) seem to show twice the number of endbolts/endscrews that one usually sees. Has anyone seen this before? Whilst Fiona's photos show the normal 6 endbolts, what made me think this instrument to be an early Jeffries was the fact that the fretwork is not held in place by the endbolts, but by 6 screws instead. I've not seen this on other Jeffries instruments, but then I've never seen a really early one (other than in the Horniman Museum, if memory serves correctly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiona Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 Thanks for letting us know. A question for Fiona: you say on your Ebay listing that "access could not be had to ascertain the condition of the reeds". Was that because the endbolts are so tight that they can't be unscrewed? And a question for anyone who might know: both ends (see the pics that Fiona posted earlier) seem to show twice the number of endbolts/endscrews that one usually sees. Has anyone seen this before? Daniel It is interesting the comments here as on Wednesday when I saw the expert and had the instrument looked over, everything on this thread was brought up at the meeting. Whilst it is true there are twice the number of screws on the endplates and, yes, the sharper edge was immediately pointed out, it was believed that the metal plate had bent down with the mid-screws and the end screws were added to level it out. The reason access could not had was due to my mother's ancestor probably having work done and being over-zealous with the glue on the bellow ends and not wiping off the excess. Access can be obtained by skinning the bellow ends off with a sharp stanley knife. Naturally, we did not want to do this on Wednesday! Regards Fiona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) ... it was believed that the metal plate had bent down with the mid-screws and the end screws were added to level it out. The sharp turning-down of the lip would be unusual, though (as I mentioned) I have seen it on a similar instrument by John Crabb (who made concertinas for Jeffries), but the endbolts wouldn't have caused such a feature. However, overtightening of the bolts would result in the metalwork/woodwork directly underneath them distorting, and a possible "fix" for serious distortion of the ends might be to add screws in the corners, as suggested by your expert - but I see signs in your photos that the sides of this instrument may be in two pieces (a highly unusual way for a Jeffries Anglo to be made, though normal with many other makers), in which case the fretwork would usually be screwed to the outer wooden section (like your one), so they can be removed as one unit. The reason access could not had was due to my mother's ancestor probably having work done and being over-zealous with the glue on the bellow ends and not wiping off the excess. Access can be obtained by skinning the bellow ends off with a sharp stanley knife. That sounds like very bad news for anyone interested in evaluating, buying, or repairing the instrument. Edited for spelling Edited August 15, 2009 by Stephen Chambers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiona Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 That sounds like very bad news for anyone interested in evaluating, buying, or repairing the instrument. Stephen I used the word 'probably'. I spent 2 hours with this expert. He gave a value based on its current condition. Regards Fiona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) That sounds like very bad news for anyone interested in evaluating, buying, or repairing the instrument. Stephen I used the word 'probably'. I spent 2 hours with this expert. He gave a value based on its current condition. Fiona, You also said "Access can be obtained by skinning the bellow ends off with a sharp stanley knife" , whilst nobody can properly examine or evaluate the condition of a concertina if they can't look inside it. (I've been buying/working on concertinas for the past 40 years...) Edited August 14, 2009 by Stephen Chambers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiona Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 That sounds like very bad news for anyone interested in evaluating, buying, or repairing the instrument. Stephen I used the word 'probably'. I spent 2 hours with this expert. He gave a value based on its current condition. Fiona, You also said "Access can be obtained by skinning the bellow ends off with a sharp stanley knife." Ok Stephen - I am partially deaf as I said so in my first ever post so I may have heard that bit wrong and also I know very little about them. I have taken ALOT of time to find out more and visited an expert recommended by these very boards. You are most welcome to come over and actually examine the concertina intead of shredding the concertina to pieces based on some photos. Regards Fiona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I do not think that any one wants to to "rip the concertina to shreds" but any potential buyer or collector would want to to check the insides first before parting with GBP 2,500. and more. It is like buying a vintage car...one wants to see what is under neath the hood or the bonnet. Certain concertina expert repairers may take up to a year or more before the can refurbish a concertina...because the true experts are so busy repairing other concertinas and building a few on the side. I am currently waiting for one of my concertinas to be refurbished and by the time I get it next March it will be a year and a half of waiting. The may be a lot of surprises when a concertina is opened up for inspection...some surprises are pleasant and some are frightning and expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Yeah Fiona please don't be on the defensive. You realize that someone might actually bid on your instrument for 2500 pounds without even seeing the instrument in person? This is all we've got, pictures and text. Also, bear in mind this is very, very unusual to be selling an instrument without having an accurate description of the inside of the concertina, the physical quality of the reeds etc. The reeds (and surrounding mecanism) are the 'engine' and 'heart' of a concertina, and you're pretty much saying you could not get access to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) You are most welcome to come over and actually examine the concertina ... Fiona, I'd be very happy to do that for you, if you'll pay my travel/accommodation expenses - but there wouldn't be much point if it can't be opened (though I could bring tools that might make that possible, without doing irreperable harm to the instrument). ... intead of shredding the concertina to pieces based on some photos. I'm not at all sure how I'm supposed to have done that, because I can't see it at all - maybe you've misunderstood me? It is you who have told us that the ends can't be taken off and suggested they have been glued on, not I - whilst it would be quite normal for any eBay seller of a concertina to be asked to provide internal photos, of the reeds etc., especially when the instrument is likely to sell for thousands of pounds - otherwise people are potentially bidding on "a pig in a poke"... Edited August 15, 2009 by Stephen Chambers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence Reeves Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 If an "expert" said it is from the period of 1870, and in old pitch plus the probable connection with it being a John Crabb maybe that is a good bit of info. The Button Box had an old Jeffries listed at 13000 dollars recently that also looked rough in the photos at auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danersen Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 All - This thread is quite interesting, and I can't help but wonder if anyone else is so curious as I - but not so bold to ask - about the identity of the unnamed expert. Perhaps the expert would be able to clear up many, most, or all of the uncertainty. Fiona - In my most gracious tone, may I suggest that asking others for assistance and then being needlessly critical of the efforts of those kind enough to respond to said request seems a bit disingenuous - at least to me. Be Well, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 If an "expert" said it is from the period of 1870, and in old pitch plus the probable connection with it being a John Crabb maybe that is a good bit of info. The Button Box had an old Jeffries listed at 13000 dollars recently that also looked rough in the photos at auction. There's a big difference, that Jeffries had been restored by the Buttonbox team, so we knew they opened it and fix things up. Here the problem is that no matter what info you get, if you don't know the state of the inside, how can you value it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 So, a few hours to go for that auction. I wonder if it will get any bid? Might happen at the last minute, maybe some people will snipe it... will be interesting to see if there are gamblers out there :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Hersh Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Two bidders, and sold for GBP 3,402.00 (approximately US $5,616.36). So, a few hours to go for that auction. I wonder if it will get any bid? Might happen at the last minute, maybe some people will snipe it... will be interesting to see if there are gamblers out there :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex West Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I saw the instrument and it was everything that Fiona and her expert said it was. I'm still curious as to how he dated it to 1870, but I'm sure he's seen more than I have. The fretwork didn't seem as fine as others I've seen and the C Jeffries stamp seemed to be a different font than the more common one so maybe that's a clue. The action seemed robust, with no apparent wear on the most heavily used levers (but one missing - stupidly, I didn't check whether the levers were brass or steel). I couldn't see more of the reeds than just a part of one or two through the pad holes but they seemed relatively rust free. Given the amount of work to be done on it and allowing for a few surprises once it's opened up, I'd say the price was about right. A dealer wouldn't make much out of it but if you could do most of the repairs yourself, a player might get a nice instrument - depending on how it plays once all the work is done of course Alex West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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