Konzertina-123 Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Could it be one of the first Demian accordions ? Here are the pictures : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Müller Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Uhh - where is Stephen? /Henrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konzertina-123 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 Yes, Stephen Chambers could help us !! There's something very strange : there are no reeds into it, excepted for the bass side !! Here is the picture of the bass reeds and inside the bellow : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbones Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 8 keys with 4 reeds designed for the push. Are those leather valves over 4 other reeds or just glued in to seal the holes? Seems strange to to have 4 reeds work only on the push and 4 only for the pull. What do the 3 big valves do? Is the one on the keyboard side for air? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) Now that's an interesting one! Could it be one of the first Demian accordions ? No, the Demian ones were of a different design, with exposed pallets, and better made, with better materials, like this one: The one in your photos is of much simpler construction and is made of cheap materials - the top of it is even "woodgrained" (painted to look like fancy timber) and the "inlay" around the edge of the top is only scratched on. It does bear some resemblances to early 1840s Viennese designs (Michael Simon 1840, Johann Remenka 1842, etc.), though it isn't the same as any of them, but various details of it would remind me strongly of early German accordions that I have, so my guess is that it may well be an early German-made interpretation of models like those, probably made in the 1840s. It would only need the addition of a bass-box to turn it into a recognisable early Deutsche Harmonika (German accordion), and that may well be exactly how that instrument developed! (I'd be very happy to add it to my collection! ) Edited June 23, 2009 by Stephen Chambers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 8 keys with 4 reeds designed for the push. Are those leather valves over 4 other reeds or just glued in to seal the holes?Seems strange to to have 4 reeds work only on the push and 4 only for the pull. What do the 3 big valves do? Is the one on the keyboard side for air? You're looking at the bass reeds, Konzertina-123 has already said that the treble ones are missing, and I expect the 3 big valves do exactly the same as they do on a modern German/Cajun accordion, which is to provide a tonic/subdominant bass/chord, and air. The one that is presently on the keyboard side is the wind key, and it should be on the back - the instrument is mis-assembled in the photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marien Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Same opinion, it has that typical german look... Now that's an interesting one!...various details of it would remind me strongly of early German accordions that I have, so my guess is that it may well be an early German-made interpretation of models like those, probably made in the 1840s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konzertina-123 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) Thank you for your answers ! I looked everywhere inside and outside, there is no label of any kind. The bass notes are tuned in C#. Could you please send pictures of your similar-looking German accordions, Stephen ? I have been told by someone else that it could be a 1860's toy accordion... Anyway, I think I have done a good deal, here is the eBay link for it : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=220427653588 Peter Edited June 23, 2009 by Konzertina-123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 Thank you for your answers ! I looked everywhere inside and outside, there is no label of any kind. Peter, Unfortunately, you'd rarely get any label in a 19th century accordion - even the Demian ones are never signed, though they sometimes have a seller's label on them, like "C. Wheatstone & Co." or "Keith, Prowse & Co." of London. The bass notes are tuned in C#. So it was probably intended to be D, in old German (flat) pitch. Could you please send pictures of your similar-looking German accordions, Stephen ? I was planning on scanning the images I have of those 1840s Viennese ones, and photographing some of my German ones that display similar features, but that will take time. I have been told by someone else that it could be a 1860's toy accordion... I've seen other instances where earlier, simpler styles of accordion have continued in production as cheaper models, after designs have evolved and become more complex, so it may be that similar accordions were still being made (as cheap models/toys) in the 1860s - does the person who said that have any evidence for it? But I've never seen one of this design before - whilst it is similar to some early Viennese instruments, as you will see when I post pictures. Does it have any vestiges of reed blocks in the treble end? And could you post a photo of the inside of that? Anyway, I think I have done a good deal, here is the eBay link for it :http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=220427653588 I think you did OK! (It just goes to show that I haven't been checking eBay lately... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konzertina-123 Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 There is everything inside, excepted the reeds. This is designed for single reeds, like a concertina (no tremolo effect). I will try to post a photo in a few days. The person who said that it was a toy was not sure and had no clue of it. What could be its real worth ? P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diblo Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 HALLO, is this some thing you call a FLUTINA Diana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 is this some thing you call a FLUTINA No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) is this some thing you call a FLUTINA No. It could well be something I would call a flutina though. (You're not alone, Diana!) Actually what's the difference? Edited June 24, 2009 by Dirge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 is this some thing you call a FLUTINA No. It could well be something I would call a flutina though. (You're not alone, Diana!) Actually what's the difference? I was trying to avoid going off at a tangent... Flutinas are (by definition) French for a start (in fact the proper generic name for them is "French accordion", whilst "flutina" is, strictly-speaking, only a sub-type), they have a reedpan (like Demian's accordion, or Wheatstone's concertina), and they play their scale "on the pull", rather than "on the press" (like a melodeon, or an Anglo). They're also almost always made in rosewood, often with marquetry inlay, and have spoon-, or spade-shaped mother of pearl keys. Like this: But all of these early accordion-family instruments developed (within a few years) out of Demian's original accordion of 1829. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konzertina-123 Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) And when did accordion-builders began to use one key for one note, and not a chord ? I believe that this is the case there on my accordion. When you can make photos of your German similar instruments, please take a picture of the reed block to see if they are also similar inside /P Edited June 24, 2009 by Konzertina-123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) And when did accordion-builders began to use one key for one note, and not a chord ? Peter, Contrary to "the accepted belief", that option would appear to have been available from the very beginning in 1829, in that Demian's patent (crudely translated from the archaic German here) states: With the cover of the bellows, the entire instrument may be doubled [in size, to 10 keys], in order to play more chords or more single tones, in this case, keyboard, the bellows remain in the middle, while each hand controls in turn, either the claves or the bellows. Note the words I have underlined: "or more single tones"! Of the four Demian accordions in my collection, only the 8-key one in my photo plays five-note chords (like the 5-key one in the patent drawing*), one has two reeds per note (the second playing a harmony) and two are single-reeded. Also, though three are left-handed (as might be expected), one is right-handed. *That drawing is all most people have seen of Demian's patent, or believe it is about - who has actually read it, and understood the implications of it? When you can make photos of your German similar instruments, please take a picture of the reed block to see if they are also similar inside You have no idea how many hours work you (and others) are asking me to do over this (just that little flutina diversion last night took me 3 hours, mainly in hunting for a semi-decent photograph of a "typical" flutina ) - I don't have one similar accordion, but maybe dozens that have one, or more, feature in common with yours, and it would be much easier if you simply let me see how yours is made inside, so I could see if I had something similar in that respect. Edited June 24, 2009 by Stephen Chambers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I was trying to avoid going off at a tangent... Boy oh boy, are you in the wrong place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 You have no idea how many hours work you (and others) are asking me to do over this (just that little flutina diversion last night took me 3 hours, mainly in hunting for a semi-decent photograph of a "typical" flutina ) - I don't have one similar accordion, but maybe dozens that have one, or more, feature in common with yours, and it would be much easier if you simply let me see how yours is made inside, so I could see if I had something similar in that respect. Sorry Stephen. Next time say 'Honestly Dirge, that really is too much, just sod off and play with your duets' and I promise not to be offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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