how many years to play?

[Lawrence Reeves]

I just got back from playing with an uilleann piper for a few hours, and we had a great time. There was talk of the time to play jargon. years on the chanter , 7 to learn the tunes, etc. you know the Seamus Ennis stuff . I feel like there is a definite correlation to the playing of any instrument in Irish trad music. Style, and ornamentation are only a part of playing the concertina properly. The large repertoire to absorb, the sense of playing in a session. vs a concert, vs for dancers. Then following a recognizable style within the idiom. It sounds very much like the rhetoric of uilleann pipers. Mechanics of the concertina in my opinion follow a similar path. The ability to play the melody with some stylistic ornaments comes first, then sounding natural playing melodic variation. Adding our chords and octaves are very similar to getting the feel of regulator accompaniment. How many on the forum play regularly with good piper and agree or disagree with the analogy?

[Snorre]

The ability to play the melody with some stylistic ornaments comes first, then sounding natural playing melodic variation. Adding our chords and octaves are very similar to getting the feel of regulator accompaniment.

 

Although I don't play regularly with good pipers (I wish I did...), I agree with you. I also want to say thanks for formulating the progression of learning Irish music on the concertina. First the tunes, then the variations, then the chords/octaves. This makes sense, as I am very much in the first category of getting as many tunes, and as much playing-time as possible, to establish a sense of security when playing.

 

S

[tombilly]

I play a bit of flute & whistle, so I thought a few years ago that it'd be a good idea to get a practice set of Uileann Pipes. Whilst I could squeeze out a couple of tunes, I rapidly realised that I didn't have anywhere near the time needed to make a decent go of the pipes. The learning curve was steep. By contrast, I found it much easier to get going on the concertina - it's a mechanical instrument - you press a button, you get a note etc. - much easier at that level than say pipes, flute or fiddle. That said, some tunes fall very easily on concertina whilst others endlessly trip me up - the trips are getting less though. That's one side of the equation and IMHO the concertina is far easier than the uileann pipes in that regard.

 

The other side of the thing though is learning repetoire, skills of playing with others etc. etc. And that takes time, no matter what instrument you play. You could start at 10 and be decent by 20 or start at 40 and be decent by 50. No short cuts!!

[Lawrence Reeves]

A very accomplished whistle player, or flute player will normally struggle with the pipes a bit. The fact that the holes although similar are not exactly the same, ie. the back d, the c# being that of the octave d on whistle and flute. The other thing to get past is the ability to play closed. Although it is not the "only" way to play a chanter it is the distinctive taste of trad music on the pipes. I found the control of the bag, and the pressure easy to get, and after about a year the tight playing. Adding the drones changes the sense of pressure, and if looking at the concertina on these issues here is my take. Tight playing of the chanter=staccato playing ( either light touch, or occasional double hits on the same button) adding the drones =the change in air efficiency when playing an octave or multiple buttons at same time. The regulator choices are kind of like the ability to punch a d below the melody in either direction. After enough time it can also be used for a rhythmic variation, or chordal accompaniment. As for color variations and shading of the opened hole on the chanter, think about the John Kelly or Mary McNamara sound of a triplet as played in the same direction on two different buttons of the same pitch. Example G( on C row) G ( on G row) back to G ( on C row). Sliding into a f# on the chanter is achieved by starting with a fingered e and gradually raising the finger and increasing bellows pressure. We can get this effect ( although with caution for appropriateness) by sliding f natural into f# in the higher octave. Again on the pipes it would normally be in that octave. A crann= a crann, a cut equals a cut, however it takes time to make the sound of a cut as opposed to an audible pitched grace note. I find it fascinating to emulate uilleann pipes, and when done well in unison the combination of cane reeds played along with steels is an amazing sound. Care should be taken with some chanters. They have a series of notes that will be either sharp or flat, unless your concertina is in a similar temperament. The typical chanter is tuned as follows with respect to intonation from modern well tempered.

 

 

E +4

F# -11

g -1

A +1

B -14

C -29

C# +10

[Hooves]

I just got back from playing with an uilleann piper for a few hours, and we had a great time. There was talk of the time to play jargon. years on the chanter , 7 to learn the tunes, etc. you know the Seamus Ennis stuff . I feel like there is a definite correlation to the playing of any instrument in Irish trad music. Style, and ornamentation are only a part of playing the concertina properly. The large repertoire to absorb, the sense of playing in a session. vs a concert, vs for dancers. Then following a recognizable style within the idiom. It sounds very much like the rhetoric of uilleann pipers. Mechanics of the concertina in my opinion follow a similar path. The ability to play the melody with some stylistic ornaments comes first, then sounding natural playing melodic variation. Adding our chords and octaves are very similar to getting the feel of regulator accompaniment. How many on the forum play regularly with good piper and agree or disagree with the analogy?

 

 

although I don't have my concertina reading quite up to par with the other instruments I play, I think you should consider time to learn to read music ifor the concertina in your equation. Some people learn all songs by ear, I use a combination of the two.

 

I read sometime ago (I think on these forums) that the Famous Berklee school of music classed thier Violin players into 3 progressive "skill" categories - all that was different was the amount of time the player put in. They estimated 10,000 hours of practice to be a first chair violinist.

 

If you could practice 8 hours a day, every day, it would take 3.4 years to master the instrument. Calculate the amount of time you put into Practicing, though I'm sure the requisite amount of hours is different for each type of instrument (drums vs fiddle vs tuba, etc.)

 

hmm 2 hours every day would take you 13.7 years...