Boney Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I've often seen people here post about concertinas that take a lot of effort to play as having "stiff bellows." I've had a few Stagis (anglo and Hayden duet), and both were quite a workout to play, taking much more force to open and close the bellows than better concertinas. But, when I took an end off to (inevitably) fix something or other, I found the bellows themselves moved practically without resistance. It made it seem to me that it wasn't the bellows that were stiff, but the reeds which required more pressure to make them speak. What do people here think, especially those who make or repair concertinas? And if it is the reeds offering resistance and not the bellows, why do instruments seem to "break in" and get easier to play? Do the reeds change? Do we get used to the force required? Or do we build up muscles or improve our technique unconsciously to make it seem easier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boney Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 No comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjcjones Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I've just had my Crabb re-valved and the bellows now seem "stiffer". I suspect that rather than "breaking in" the bellows, it is because other parts of the instrument become less air-tight with use that playing becomes easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tombilly Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 That's my kinda experience too - I've an old Lachenal which not unreasonably loses a bit of air here & there after 90+ years - bellow move nice & freely. OTOH, my daughter has a Stagi type and it's more airtight & 'stiffer'. The question for people with new instruments of superior quality - does the same thing hold? Do you have to play it for a few years and wear a few parts to loosen it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick King Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 That's my kinda experience too - I've an old Lachenal which not unreasonably loses a bit of air here & there after 90+ years - bellow move nice & freely. OTOH, my daughter has a Stagi type and it's more airtight & 'stiffer'. The question for people with new instruments of superior quality - does the same thing hold? Do you have to play it for a few years and wear a few parts to loosen it up? I think it's due to the air-tightness of the pads. I think the 'stiffness' might 'wear-out' after playing it for a few years regularly. I've seen the bellows on Tim Collins concertina in music videos and they look as loose as anything. I'm thinking it might take a bit more if you have a beginners, but to be frank, I don't know the difference between a beginners and advanced players concertina. Cheers, Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boney Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 I've just had my Crabb re-valved and the bellows now seem "stiffer". I suspect that rather than "breaking in" the bellows, it is because other parts of the instrument become less air-tight with use that playing becomes easier. Well, that may be, but I don't think it's what I'm talking about. Airtightness actually makes the instrument easier to play, even if you may feel more resistance. It's useful resistance -- it takes much less movement and overall effort to make notes speak than on a leaky instrument. The difference between a Stagi (most of them -- I've seen a few that play relatively easily) and even a good hybrid box like a Morse or Tedrow is dramatic, the Stagi takes much more effort to play, even though they may all be quite airtight. When you move up to something really nice like a Dipper, it becomes easier still. My Wakker pretty much spoiled me, and going back to the Stagi felt like I was being punished. And I feel like very little of the difference is in the bellows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 The difference between a Stagi (most of them -- I've seen a few that play relatively easily) and even a good hybrid box like a Morse or Tedrow is dramatic, the Stagi takes much more effort to play, even though they may all be quite airtight. When you move up to something really nice like a Dipper, it becomes easier still. My Wakker pretty much spoiled me, and going back to the Stagi felt like I was being punished. And I feel like very little of the difference is in the bellows. Yes, it's the quality of the reeds, and how well they have been set up, that makes for most of the difference. A good reed optimally set will speak at much lower air pressure than a low quality mass produced reed of the type used in cheap instruments. So the instrument with good reeds doesn't need much force on the bellows in order to play. So when a lot of force on the bellows is needed to make cheap reeds play, then its understandable that the bellows unjustly get the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick King Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) ...even a good hybrid box like a Morse... aaahhhhh...... I just love picking the best bit out of posts.... Edited June 8, 2009 by Patrick King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergus_fiddler Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 ...even a good hybrid box like a Morse... aaahhhhh...... I just love picking the best bit out of posts.... They're cute little thing, aren't they? Undoubtly, one of the most satisfaying purchases of instruments I've ever done - let see when, in four years arrives my Suttner... - Cheers, Fer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbones Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Hey guys! Take it easy on those poor, cheap bellows. They've been under a lot of pressure lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick King Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 ...even a good hybrid box like a Morse... aaahhhhh...... I just love picking the best bit out of posts.... They're cute little thing, aren't they? Undoubtly, one of the most satisfaying purchases of instruments I've ever done - let see when, in four years arrives my Suttner... - Cheers, Fer Yes, they are cute. I was awestruck when I opened the big package in which it got mailed in, and found the case of it, and inside..... my Morse; the one I had waited a long time for; should the Australian Authorities have shame on themselves for keeping it so long? Cheers, Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 ...should the Australian Authorities have shame on themselves for keeping it so long? Cheers, Patrick Yes but that's the least of their shame alas! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDT Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 ...should the Australian Authorities have shame on themselves for keeping it so long? Cheers, Patrick Yes but that's the least of their shame alas! Ian Maybe they all wanted a go on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick King Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 ...should the Australian Authorities have shame on themselves for keeping it so long? Cheers, Patrick Maybe they all wanted a go on it? I wonder..... They had it down in Sydney for 3-5 weeks. I don't have things against the A.A.; it might've taken them that time to search the box, 'cause probably their x-ray thingie broke. But why am I complaining? What if it turned up 1 month later than the 7th-March, 2008? Cheers, Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_boveri Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 i think that it is a combination of factors. i think that you can of course have stiff bellows, but i agree that the problem with a stagi/etc. is not in the bellows, but in the reeds and the shape of the holes that let the air in. the bellows on my stagi are very floppy, but take a lot of pressure to make the reeds speak. so, if the question is "are there stiff bellows?" yes. if the question is "are bellows always still when people say they are?" depends who's saying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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