why the piano?

[JimLucas]

I thought English concertinas would've had the right hand for the higher note range, but it doesn't sound as though it is what I thought it was like.

Not at all.

 

But your comment made me wonder why many people seem to think that "high notes in the right hand and low notes in the left hand" is somehow the natural order of music and musical instruments. After all, few stringed instruments work that way... certainly not the guitar, banjo, fiddle, mountain dulcimer, or autoharp. Woodwind instruments, though they can only play one note at a time, mostly use the fingers of the left hand to select among notes higher in the scale and those of the right hand to select among the lower ones. Actually, in all of these instruments the selection of notes being played is a cooperation of the two hands, not a separation. And the same is true of the English concertina, though the technical details are quite different.

 

The simple answer, it seems, is "the piano". The piano keyboard has somehow become so ingrained into our (Western) musical culture that it's viewed not merely as a means of playing music, but as the definition of music itself. It's used for teaching musical concepts even when no actual piano or similar keyboard is available. Virtually anyone who has ever studied music knows the piano keyboard, even if they've never had their hands on one.

 

So I wonder how and why this came to be the case. And (as if you couldn't tell ) I'd like to hear your opinions in the matter.

[Samantha]

.....

The piano keyboard has somehow become so ingrained into our (Western) musical culture that it's viewed not merely as a means of playing music, but as the definition of music itself. It's used for teaching musical concepts even when no actual piano or similar keyboard is available. Virtually anyone who has ever studied music knows the piano keyboard, even if they've never had their hands on one.

 

So I wonder how and why this came to be the case. And (as if you couldn't tell ) I'd like to hear your opinions in the matter.

 

Hi Jim!

Here are my guesses, based on nothing at all ...

The piano keyboard gives a very simple visual illustration of a scale of notes in a way that the fingering on other instruments does not.

The right hand got the high notes becuase frequently that's where the tune is and frequently it has to be louder and it's more twiddly than the other stuff.

Samantha

[hjcjones]

Probably because its linear and there's a simple one-to-one relationship between a note and the corresponding key - many other instruments have alternative fingerings for at least some notes. It's therefore very simple for someone who doesn't play the piano to go the keyboard and play a particular note, in a way they couldn't do very easily on a violin, for example, or a concertina of any system.

[Leo]

Hi Jim

 

As a child I learned music on a PA, and got accustomed to melody on the right, and accompaniment on the left. Not quite piano, but similar idea. To this day, if I try a new tune/song on the piano I revert to the old ways, in that it's easy to see where the notes are with the relation of the color contrasting layout of the 5 black keys. It did take a good bit of rethinking for my english concertina.

 

Thanks

Leo

[Larry Stout]

The keyboard design used on the piano actually predates the piano by quite a lot-- it was used on harpsichord and clavichord. Any idea on when it actually dates from? Anybody played a really early organ? I suspect that the reason that the English concertina layout seems so logical to me is that I never played a keyboard instrument before I took up concertina.

[Leonard]

I think the piano keyboard feels logical because we read from left to right and imagine scales in the first place from low to high.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Leonard

[David Barnert]

I think the piano keyboard feels logical because we read from left to right and imagine scales in the first place from low to high.

I think this whole conversation would be incomplete without some mention of the fact that most people are right-handed. Leonard's comment here does so indirectly. We read from left to right because we write from left to right, and we write from left to right because we do so with our right hands, so as not to smear the ink. Hebrew goes from right to left because it was designed in the hammer-and-chisel days, hammer in right hand.

 

Edited for typo.

Edited May 15, 2009 by David Barnert

[Jody Kruskal]

Hebrew goes from right to left because it was designed in the hammer-and-chisel days, hammer in right hand.

 

 

Now that's a factoid I have not heard before. What about Japanese? I guess that writing from top to bottom wouldn't smear the ink either.

[Patrick King]

I thought English concertinas would've had the right hand for the higher note range, but it doesn't sound as though it is what I thought it was like.

Not at all.

 

But your comment made me wonder why many people seem to think that "high notes in the right hand and low notes in the left hand" is somehow the natural order of music and musical instruments. After all, few stringed instruments work that way... certainly not the guitar, banjo, fiddle, mountain dulcimer, or autoharp. Woodwind instruments, though they can only play one note at a time, mostly use the fingers of the left hand to select among notes higher in the scale and those of the right hand to select among the lower ones. Actually, in all of these instruments the selection of notes being played is a cooperation of the two hands, not a separation. And the same is true of the English concertina, though the technical details are quite different.

 

The simple answer, it seems, is "the piano". The piano keyboard has somehow become so ingrained into our (Western) musical culture that it's viewed not merely as a means of playing music, but as the definition of music itself. It's used for teaching musical concepts even when no actual piano or similar keyboard is available. Virtually anyone who has ever studied music knows the piano keyboard, even if they've never had their hands on one.

 

So I wonder how and why this came to be the case. And (as if you couldn't tell ) I'd like to hear your opinions in the matter.

Hi Jim,

 

Here are my opinions:

 

Well, why not the piano? It's been around in this world for centuries. That's most possibly why everyone who studies music know about it.

And of course, like some people might think is that the piano for beginners is simple. For beginners, like little children or older adults who probably have never played anything in there life time, it is simple. There's no need to gasp for air , no need to pluck or move your arms around like your waving , no need to look like your punishing a baby , or any other moves to play a note or beat along to a rhythm. (Please no offence for people who do the stated earlier) With the piano, it is just moving your fingers; even though there are a few movements of the arms and head but not much.

 

Those were my opinions for the moment,

Cheers,

Patrick

[Fergus_fiddler]

Hebrew goes from right to left because it was designed in the hammer-and-chisel days, hammer in right hand.

 

I don't think that factoid is right. Arabic writing goes from right to left too, and was primarly designed to be writen with pen or brush.

 

On the other hand, roman alphabet - the one we use nowadays - was also designed in hammer-and-chisel days too...

[Leo]

Hebrew goes from right to left because it was designed in the hammer-and-chisel days, hammer in right hand.

 

I don't think that factoid is right. Arabic writing goes from right to left too, and was primarly designed to be writen with pen or brush.

 

On the other hand, roman alphabet - the one we use nowadays - was also designed in hammer-and-chisel days too...

I suspect that the clay tablets they find from the area would be a little delicate for that don't you think?

 

Thanks

Leo

[Patrick King]

Hebrew goes from right to left because it was designed in the hammer-and-chisel days, hammer in right hand.

 

I don't think that factoid is right. Arabic writing goes from right to left too, and was primarly designed to be writen with pen or brush.

 

On the other hand, roman alphabet - the one we use nowadays - was also designed in hammer-and-chisel days too...

I suspect that the clay tablets they find from the area would be a little delicate for that don't you think?

 

Thanks

Leo

 

I don't think they would've been when they were made. Unless I'm on the wrong side.

Cheers,

Patrick

[Fergus_fiddler]

Leo, I don't have the less idea you're talking about Clay tablets in european writing only go as far as phoenician or ancient greek, in the middle east a lot more older - sumerian, assirian -.

 

Romans wrote on waxed wooden tablets with a stylus, on walls with brush, on papyrus with reed pen & on their monuments with chisel and hammer...

 

Arabic writing is more modern.

 

I don't want to sound pedant, but because my job - signwriter - and one of my biggest hobbies - paleography & illuminated manuscripts - I think I know a little more about the subject than about concertinas

 

Cheers,

 

Fer

[gavdav]

I could be wrong but I understood the dominance of the piano to be connected with the development of an equal tempered scale, and the piano being one of the earlier developments of a chromatic instrument. Couple that with the seperation visually and physically of the sharps and flats, the fact that chordal and melodic musical theory ideas can be easily demonstrated and "work" on the piano in a physical and visual way which they don't on any other instrument as far as I can see and it seems natural it would achieve a certain dominance, at least in academic and compositional terms.

[Leo]

Leo, I don't have the less idea you're talking about Clay tablets in european writing only go as far as phoenician or ancient greek, in the middle east a lot more older - sumerian, assirian -.

 

Romans wrote on waxed wooden tablets with a stylus, on walls with brush, on papyrus with reed pen & on their monuments with chisel and hammer...

 

Arabic writing is more modern.

 

I don't want to sound pedant, but because my job - signwriter - and one of my biggest hobbies - paleography & illuminated manuscripts - I think I know a little more about the subject than about concertinas

 

Cheers,

 

Fer

Hello Fer

 

The reference is to the hammer and chisel used as writing implements and the origination of Hebrew writing which IS in the Middle East. It would be difficult to use a hammer and chisel for illuminated manuscripts also. I hadn't thought about using them on a concertina. Accordion maybe, but not a concertina.

 

Thanks

Leo

[Fergus_fiddler]

Hello Fer

 

The reference is to the hammer and chisel used as writing implements and the origination of Hebrew writing which IS in the Middle East. It would be difficult to use a hammer and chisel for illuminated manuscripts also. I hadn't thought about using them on a concertina. Accordion maybe, but not a concertina.

 

Thanks

Leo

 

Hi, Leo.

 

I wouldn't call the area where Israel is Middle East. maybe a better term would be 'Oriental Mediterranean'. And as far I know, early hebrew were manuscripts - as the ones of Qumran, Dead Sea -: I haven't found any evidence of clay engraving or chisel & hammer - and hope you're not going to use the Bible as a 'reliable historical source' - but I could be wrong.

 

On the other hand, I found a funny tendence you have to mix some concepts. I don't mind about it, but should be careful talking about accordions & chisels: Is a well known fact that a lot of people here post also on melodeon.net, sure you wouldn't like to hurt their feelings

 

Apologies to everybody for the off-topic.

 

Cheers,

 

Fer

[Dirge]

Of course Israel is in the Middle East.

 

 

(edited to remove a needlessly abrasive extra comment. Sorry Fer, bit hung over and tetchy this morning)

Edited June 3, 2009 by Dirge

[david_boveri]

Hebrew goes from right to left because it was designed in the hammer-and-chisel days, hammer in right hand.

 

 

Now that's a factoid I have not heard before. What about Japanese? I guess that writing from top to bottom wouldn't smear the ink either.

 

the japanese based their system on the chinese. when you write in chinese, you write "top to bottom, left to write" for each character. traditionally the next word goes underneath, but in the modern world they very often write the next word to the right. either way, you ALWAYS write each character "top to bottom, left to right." so the rule still holds for chinese.

 

interestingly, though, traditionally you never touched your hand to the paper... you kept your hand in the air and balanced a brush beneath. so... who knows why they right to left ever came into play.