Dr.O'Neill

[Lawrence Reeves]

After having Paul Groff spark my interest in playing some of my favourite tunes in the key of C, I have been working on the following. Lucy Campbell's Reel, and Dr O'Neill's jig. I play both comfortably in D as normal, but there is something very pleasing about these in C. Lucy Campbell's has a lot of added bellows punch, and Dr. O'Neill just sounds reedier. I also can do some added octave doubling on the 3rd and 4th parts. I also tried to add the pinky on the lowest C/ G as a drone. This technique is one that Paul demonstrated in our workshop, but I have some trouble getting it to work yet. When in C I can also get a second reed sounding on the C ( drone) for a fattening of sound. Another nice use of the thumb C is to change bellows direction giving two C choices, just like having a push or pull bottom D. I tried out a few of these tunes with my friend playing a C chanter on his pipes. Great stuff all around, so maybe the need to pull a Bb / F out is reduced a little. The real trick comes once you leave D tunes, or E minor ones. To play in true F, I still need the Bb / F box playing in G fingering.

[Jewish Leprechaun]

Yep, I tried doing as Paul suggested, using the low G as a drone. I still haven't gotten it. I have a hard time keeping the melody going while moving my pinky back and forth between the push G and the pull G.

[Lawrence Reeves]

The desired effect this time is to keep the pinky on the Lowest button of the C row. It is a C on push, and G on pull. It gives a sort of oompah with all push notes being in the c chord therefore pleasant, and the pull note of F natural being the only dissonant. Uilleann pipe players make good use of dissonance from the D being in three octaves of drone vs the C nat and C# above.

[ceemonster]

hmmmm......funny about this "playing in c" thing, perhaps it's a microbe or something.....i've been doing it because a session co-conspirator's mania for taking up c#/d box has gotten me playing press-draw on the c row of my b/c, which is spilling over to concertina adventures.....i actually don't share paul groff's fascination with the old one-row sound, since my concertina melody-phrasing muses are the long-bow fiddling of east galway/east clare, the east galway flute players, and the so-called "open" phrasing of the travelling pipers. but having said that, the whole C-on-the-row thing is kinda fun. i've been learning tunes from kitty hayes/peter laban, and also the set in C played by fiddler willie kelly on the rafferty cd "road from ballinakil," of I Have No Money & The Steeplechase.....

Edited April 16, 2009 by ceemonster

[Guest Peter Laban]

since my concertina melody-phrasing muses are the long-bow fiddling of east galway/east clare

 

No John Naughton for you then?

[Paul Groff]

Hi guys,

 

Larre and (Mark?), glad you are having some fun and challenges trying different ideas on the concertina. Those older players made some great music that still inspires me and I'm glad it caught your ear.

 

ceemonster and Peter, FYI my main point was that if you listen to some of the excellent older players (not to mention many recent and current ones), in many cases a lot of creativity was stimulated by the challenge of playing the tunes along one row of a 10-key melodeon, or one row of a concertina, or even on the two rows of a german concertina. So-called "limitations" or rather constraints can be springboards to great craftsmanship and art. We listened to lovely settings by P. J. Conlon, William Sullivan, Mrs. Crotty, Mrs. O'Dwyer, and John Kelly. Not only the settings, but the way these musicians then delivered the tunes (their phrasing, timing, variations, octaves, chords, bellows control etc.) go into making music just as good - if not better - than you might hear in some performances of the "common settings" of these tunes. Peter, from her recordings I can tell your late friend Kitty Hayes was also able to control her instrument in a way enabling her to succeed making great music, with settings that also may seem "nonstandard" to some modern anglo players (for example, "G" tunes played in the fa mode of C - that is, "F more or less," on one or two rows of a C/G). Compare Willie Mullally's settings of G tunes....

 

So why not try those settings (and other similar ones) and techniques and see if you can learn to make them work. This will challenge you to control your instrument in a way that may be new to you.

 

ceemonster, I like long phrases too, sometimes. On a 45 key concertina I sometimes play a tune in D (or in C for that matter) with very long sequences of notes all on the pull, or all on the push. It's handy learning to do that especially if you want to develop the ability to add drones, and to have them change direction when you want a phrase to end. But it's also worth learning to be able to control the bellows and buttons sufficiently that you can make changes in direction almost inaudible in the phrasing (when you want to do so). Then you can give the effect of a long phrase even though you might be changing bellows direction within it. Great players on the box (including the one row) and concertina can do that beautifully. I personally am still trying to get better at this, along with my many other technical struggles. But I can do it to a degree. One way to work on this is through the challenge provided by the beautiful, classic, and often neglected, settings of the great one-row melodeon players such as Conlon.

 

Not that there is anything wrong with short phrases, either, and I like those too in many situations. Odd as it might seem in the context of this discussion, it often makes sense to me to make short phrases with finger (button) articulation and rests, rather than changing bellows direction.

 

Back to the best classic settings of the one-row players, they have this to recommend them: 1) The basic notes/buttons/directions/fingers are easy to communicate to total beginners since they lack confusing "multiple options," 2) Still, they can be used to make great traditional music as the old players proved, 3) The technical skills (timing, bellows control, etc) needed to make them successful musically are worth mastering for any musician, and in fact may still be a challenge for some experienced players who have been used to fingering in a different way, and 4) The slight humoring or re-working of the tunes that was sometimes used to fit them to the one-row scale can be positively refreshing to the ear of experienced players. Oh, 5) In some cases the one-row settings actually offer better options for adding octaves and other traditional effects, compared to the so-called "ergonomic or fast" fingerings that some modern players prefer.

 

So, learn to play the concertina every different way if you have the time and motivation... at least, every way that makes the music sound good. But a lot of beginners, and possibly some experienced players, could do worse than to learn to make some of the "simple" one-row settings sound good.

 

Just some ideas to consider.

 

PG

Edited April 16, 2009 by Paul Groff

[Guest Peter Laban]

ceemonster and Peter, FYI my main point was that if you listen to some of the excellent older players (not to mention many recent and current ones), in many cases a lot of creativity was stimulated by the challenge of playing the tunes along one row of a 10-key melodeon, or one row of a concertina, or even on the two rows of a german concertina. So-called "limitations" or rather constraints can be springboards to great craftsmanship and art.

 

I realised that Paul. I was just taking a tiny stab at C. in relation to the 'East Clare' bit. The likes of John Naughton, Bridget Dineen etc Being essential East Clare players, playing in C and quite the distinct choppy phrasing.

 

Example : John Naughton

Edited April 16, 2009 by Peter Laban

[ceemonster]

[No John Naughton for you then?]

 

ha, i love the one-row sound of the "old people" including what little i've heard of JN. and i love mary's playing, which she told our class is often inspired by the old one-row sound, but in my own playing, my own "east clare bit" has been inspired by the phrasing of the fiddlers.....attempting to put all buttons in play in order to get more the long note, the more fluid "bowstroke" options....i do find it funny that free-reed players are often expected to echo the push-draw sound, even the cross-row players....maybe because of the dance connection.....but no reason why they shouldn't have the same leeway as the fiddlers to be fluid & have a "longer bow".....

 

on the creativity issue with the one-row, i remember charlie piggott telling me that joe cooley did a super creative rendering of "my darling asleep," and i wondered if that came out of the parameters of the "press-draw" style he played, which on box would have been kind of like the "on the row" concertina style maybe...

 

btw, lovely set of reels by lorraine o'brien currently archived on the monday night clarefm show with eoin subbing for joan h.....

 

i see a clip of yvonne griffin with miriam collins & other west clare concertina players has made it onto youtube....

Edited April 17, 2009 by ceemonster

[Guest Peter Laban]

i remember charlie piggott telling me that joe cooley did a super creative rendering of "my darling asleep," and i wondered if that came out of the parameters of the "press-draw" style he played

 

Judge for yourself:

 

My Darling Asleep - Joe Cooley

[michael sam wild]

I play melodeon ( button accordion) as well as Anglo and over the years realised that tunes in Eb etc were played on instruments tuned that way and largely in a push and pull style. I got a Generation whistle in Eb to learn tunes which I then played in D or G etc. . Since I got a Hohner Erica melodeon in D/Eb I find I can play along to Joe Cooley, Noel Hill , Tony MacMahon etc quite readily.

 

When it comes to concertinas, since I can't afford lots of instruments in various keys I adapt the tunes to keys I can capture on my 26 button C/G Jeffries Anglo.

 

I note that a lot of older players like Paddy Fahey use C quite a lot and of course that is nice in the 'Old Style' on a C/G concertina. I seem to have evolved a 'default' style like a mouth organ player in the old way as well as a 'Noel Hill/ Miick Bramich style for 'New Style' playing. Mick B produced an excellent book before all this 'cross row' stuff became current. He evolved it his own way and it's a great book ( Dave Mallinson - 'Mally' publications)

[Jewish Leprechaun]

The desired effect this time is to keep the pinky on the Lowest button of the C row. It is a C on push, and G on pull. It gives a sort of oompah with all push notes being in the c chord therefore pleasant, and the pull note of F natural being the only dissonant. Uilleann pipe players make good use of dissonance from the D being in three octaves of drone vs the C nat and C# above.

 

I guess that that is the reason I was having so much trouble, I wasn't supposed to move my pinky.

Oh, you're right, Paul, this is Mark.

[ceemonster]

[Judge for yourself:]

 

holy moley, peter, this is grrrrreat! i ran out of the pub at lockout time for my dwelling and forgot to ask dr. piggott to play it for me, we just talked about it....so this is epochal.....gee, it's wonderful. and actually, i believe charlie was saying that cooley made the tune more modal by changing or eliminating certain notes, which is what made me wonder if cooley's setting was one-row-melodeon-inspired. and i do think that this sounds like that. i like it better than the standard "darling asleep." thank you! i love cooley's tempo and swing. last summer a dympna session i went to featured mayo box player joe carey, and i thought he had some of that feeling....