Creaky bellows

[doodle]

Hi Everyone

This may have been covered elsewhere, but I can't locate the thread, so can anyone help, please? My Jeffries' anglo bellows (probably original) creak in a "leathery" way as they are extended. Not a problem for playing, but am I courting disaster to just ignore this or should I get some leather conditioning cream or something? If so, what's best and how should I apply it? Any guidance would be most gratefully received as I'd hate to ruin my pride and joy!

Thanks to all in anticipation of your valued advice.

Alan

[Hereward]

Hi Everyone

This may have been covered elsewhere, but I can't locate the thread, so can anyone help, please? My Jeffries' anglo bellows (probably original) creak in a "leathery" way as they are extended. Not a problem for playing, but am I courting disaster to just ignore this or should I get some leather conditioning cream or something? If so, what's best and how should I apply it? Any guidance would be most gratefully received as I'd hate to ruin my pride and joy!

Thanks to all in anticipation of your valued advice.

Alan

See here:

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...amp;hl=mink+oil

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...und+for+bellows

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...pic=329&hl=

 

Ian

[Jim Van Donsel]

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...amp;hl=mink+oil

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...und+for+bellows

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...pic=329&hl=

 

Ian, your URL's were truncated somehow.

[Rod]

Hi Everyone

This may have been covered elsewhere, but I can't locate the thread, so can anyone help, please? My Jeffries' anglo bellows (probably original) creak in a "leathery" way as they are extended. Not a problem for playing, but am I courting disaster to just ignore this or should I get some leather conditioning cream or something? If so, what's best and how should I apply it? Any guidance would be most gratefully received as I'd hate to ruin my pride and joy!

Thanks to all in anticipation of your valued advice.

Alan

 

Apply a good quality (black?)shoe polishing cream. Use a 1/4" or 1/2" artists oil paint brush to work the cream well into the depths of the folds and a smooth soft cloth for the remainder of the leather work. Might do the trick.

[Hereward]

Ian, your URL's were truncated somehow.

 

 

Thanks but I am not sure what went wrong and don't know how to repair them.

 

I think Rod has answered the question and summed up previous threads really. A search on 'Bellows Care' should turn up other threads.

 

Ian

[Rod]

Hi Everyone

This may have been covered elsewhere, but I can't locate the thread, so can anyone help, please? My Jeffries' anglo bellows (probably original) creak in a "leathery" way as they are extended. Not a problem for playing, but am I courting disaster to just ignore this or should I get some leather conditioning cream or something? If so, what's best and how should I apply it? Any guidance would be most gratefully received as I'd hate to ruin my pride and joy!

Thanks to all in anticipation of your valued advice.

Alan

 

Apply a good quality (black?)shoe polishing cream. Use a 1/4" or 1/2" artists oil paint brush to work the cream well into the depths of the folds and a smooth soft cloth for the remainder of the leather work. Might do the trick.

 

Another thought relating to creaky, badly neglected bellows. Has anyone ever tried 'Neatsfoot Compound' ?

I have never felt the necessity to try it on my concertina bellows but gathering dust on a shelf amongst my souvenirs I have a can of Neatsfoot Compound which I must have had for over fifty years. (I was introduced to it by my father who used to refer to it as 'Neatsfoot Oil'). The can reads:-

' VANNER & PREST - NEATSFOOT COMPOUND Made in England by Carr & Day & Martin, Great Dunmow, Essex. A finely blended preservative containing pure neatsfoot oil,developed especially for restoring the natural properties of worn and weathered leather. Well suited for use on leather belting, harnesses and saddlery. Regular application prevents leather becoming dry and brittle. Shake well. Using a cloth or brush, apply the oil sparingly and allow to penetrate'. I have enough left in my can to last me another 50 ( or even 500 ) years ! Might even try it on my face.

 

Rod

[Michael Marino]

Hi Everyone

This may have been covered elsewhere, but I can't locate the thread, so can anyone help, please? My Jeffries' anglo bellows (probably original) creak in a "leathery" way as they are extended. Not a problem for playing, but am I courting disaster to just ignore this or should I get some leather conditioning cream or something? If so, what's best and how should I apply it? Any guidance would be most gratefully received as I'd hate to ruin my pride and joy!

Thanks to all in anticipation of your valued advice.

Alan

 

Apply a good quality (black?)shoe polishing cream. Use a 1/4" or 1/2" artists oil paint brush to work the cream well into the depths of the folds and a smooth soft cloth for the remainder of the leather work. Might do the trick.

 

Another thought relating to creaky, badly neglected bellows. Has anyone ever tried 'Neatsfoot Compound' ?

I have never felt the necessity to try it on my concertina bellows but gathering dust on a shelf amongst my souvenirs I have a can of Neatsfoot Compound which I must have had for over fifty years. (I was introduced to it by my father who used to refer to it as 'Neatsfoot Oil'). The can reads:-

' VANNER & PREST - NEATSFOOT COMPOUND Made in England by Carr & Day & Martin, Great Dunmow, Essex. A finely blended preservative containing pure neatsfoot oil,developed especially for restoring the natural properties of worn and weathered leather. Well suited for use on leather belting, harnesses and saddlery. Regular application prevents leather becoming dry and brittle. Shake well. Using a cloth or brush, apply the oil sparingly and allow to penetrate'. I have enough left in my can to last me another 50 ( or even 500 ) years ! Might even try it on my face.

 

Rod

 

Neatsfoot oil, if the stuff you have is the same I grew up with in the States, is good for leather and does not cause breaking down of the leather over time. MOST SHOE CREAMS DO. This is why modern Military boots DON'T use regular shoe polish. Most of the good creams for motorcycle leathers are also fine but many leather conditioners cause a break down of leather over time and this gets compounded by flexing and bending of the leather. You can see it quite plainly in old military boots as they get stretched and develop wrinkles in them even in sections that are only under stretching load and not the repetitive bending.

 

I have a couple of sets of motorcycle leathers that are over 20 years old and still in fully serviceable condition that I used either a Hien Gerick cream on them or Neatsfoot oil or a bit of both depending which was at hand. They all show no stretching and still fit wonderfully well (though the liner on one is starting to show it age). Bellows get bent and folded when not at rest and they need a treatment that will maintain their flexibility while not causing them to loose structural strength.

 

Hope this helps. With Neatsfoot oil a little goes a very long way. Very lightly coat and let set on a cloth over night before polishing in/ off any residue from the application. Wonderful stuff.

 

Michael

[doodle]

Many thanks for the help, everyone. I bought some Neatsfoot oil today from my local agricultural supplier - cost about £5.00 for enough to immerse the entire instrument!!!!! I'll give a little of this a try as it does indeed claim restorative properties "without damage to leather or stitching".

Thanks again - Alan

[Theo]

Many thanks for the help, everyone. I bought some Neatsfoot oil today from my local agricultural supplier - cost about £5.00 for enough to immerse the entire instrument!!!!! I'll give a little of this a try as it does indeed claim restorative properties "without damage to leather or stitching".

Thanks again - Alan

 

But be very very careful, neatsfoot oil can damage the adhesives and the card used in concertina bellows. It's designed for horse tack, not concertinas. If you only use small quantities you may be safe. Another problem with neatsfoot is that it remains oily for a long time so the surfaces you treat will be more difficult to clean because the dust that always accumulates in the bellows folds will not easily brush out. I would not put neatsfoot oil anywhere near a concertina bellows.

 

I don't know where the idea comes from that shoe cream is bad for shoes. I've seen no evidence of that myself and I've been wearing shoes, and polishing them, all my life. I think you are quite safe with some black shoe polish. It leaves a waxy surface coating which will act as a lubricant in the areas of the gussets where there are tight folds. It is the rubbing of leather surfaces in these folds that causes the squeaking, and in the long run may result in some wear on the edges of folds.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Theo

[Greg Jowaisas]

I have repaired over 100 bellows. One of the most frequent repairs is the inner hinge which is the other side of the bellows valley. Often the hinge is intact but the bellows card has delaminated.

 

I'm with Theo on this one. Why chance compromising the card and adjacent adhesive with an oily, migrating substance like neatsfoot oil? The underlying card is the skeletal support of your bellows. Please think twice before you do anything to weaken or jeapordize its integrity.

 

Greg

[Chris Ghent]

Never use neatsfoot oil..! It is way too organic and can become mouldy. On a number of occasions Richard Evans has said to me he has yet another casualty of careless advice to use neatsfoot oil in his repair shop.

 

Chris

[Rod]

Never use neatsfoot oil..! It is way too organic and can become mouldy. On a number of occasions Richard Evans has said to me he has yet another casualty of careless advice to use neatsfoot oil in his repair shop.

 

Chris

 

My previous mention of Neatsfoot Oil was not intended as a recommendation. I have never used it on my Concertina bellows and would always have been apprehensive of doing so. My can, which is labelled Neatsfoot Compound, is presumably some sort of blend of Neatsfoot and other substances but the label gives no clue as to what those other substances might be be. The occasional application of good quality black shoe cream has always kept my bellows in tip-top condition and that is what my personal experience would lead me to recommend to others.

[doodle]

Right, that seems pretty clear - anyone want a 1/2 pint can of Neatsfoot oil, unopened!? I think I'll try a little shoe cream, in that case, although I do seem to remember reading a player of some note (notoriety) saying that a bit of honest sweat from the brow was all he used to keep the bellows supple!

Alan

[michael sam wild]

I bought a 1914 Wheatstone EC which had very creaky bellows that someone had painted black. I found Dave Elliott's book very useful. I reckon a gentle cream applied to the gussett is the answer ( Ooo-er matron!!! - They can't touch you for it!! as Kenneth Williams might have said in 'Carry on Concertinering'

[Hereward]

I bought a 1914 Wheatstone EC which had very creaky bellows that someone had painted black. I found Dave Elliott's book very useful. I reckon a gentle cream applied to the gussett is the answer ( Ooo-er matron!!! - They can't touch you for it!! as Kenneth Williams might have said in 'Carry on Concertinering'

 

I heard they were going to make another Carry On film but it's too much to think this might be the subject matter.

 

Ian

[d.elliott]

I bought a 1914 Wheatstone EC which had very creaky bellows that someone had painted black. I found Dave Elliott's book very useful. I reckon a gentle cream applied to the gussett is the answer ( Ooo-er matron!!! - They can't touch you for it!! as Kenneth Williams might have said in 'Carry on Concertinering'

 

Not sure if my book was intended for use as a script in a 'carry on', but what ever works for you.

 

Neatsfoot oil is a bit of a bad idea, bellows = book binder's arts + book binders materials + book binders adhesives,

 

Neatsfoot oil + Bellows= eventual kit of un-guable & contaminated parts made from book binders materials.

 

So, read the book. The creaking is leather to leather rubbing, you will see pale witnesses to the rubbing on the gussey folds (self control please), shoe cream will re-colour and lubricate..................................

 

 

 

Dave E

[Lleanne]

I was planning on using some saddle soap (which is actually nothing to do with soap, it is a glycerine block) which is the traditional treatment for leather, I'd think that would be ok (unless anyone knows better?).

Lleanne

[Greg Jowaisas]

Lleanne,

Please Google "saddle soap" and read the reasons NOT to use it. There are many. For example:

 

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/7...uths.html?cat=7

 

To some reading this thread, Dave Elliott, Chris Ghent, Leo and I may seem like nay sayers, "Don't do this; Don't do that!" As repairers, builders and aficionados of concertinas we are simply trying to help you be good custodians of your instruments. We've seen the ill effects of neglect, accident and poorly thought out good intentions on our repair benches. With some care and thoughtfulness many of the vintage concertinas out there will make it to the next century and beyond.

 

Some of the techniques and materials used by restorers of Victorian books may be compatible with bellows maintenance. But please remember your bellows are a combination of leather, card, linen and adhesive. Use of a conditioner should be considered very carefully. The amount should be the minimum. Application should be deliberate.

 

Shoe creme or paste, used sparingly, remains the best over the counter bellows application.

 

Keep those concertinas playing and off the repair bench.

 

Greg

Edited March 27, 2009 by Greg Jowaisas