Alan Day Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I have just been listening to Clunktrip on Utube this player lives in Azerbaijan. I recommend that you listen to him play "Joe Derrane's" a lovely bit of Irish music played on the English Concertina. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptarmigan Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 I have just been listening to Clunktrip on Utube this player lives in Azerbaijan.I recommend that you listen to him play "Joe Derrane's" a lovely bit of Irish music played on the English Concertina. Al What do people here think about the comment, regarding the player hitting the keys TOO HARD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 What do people here think about the comment, regarding the player hitting the keys TOO HARD? I suspect it would be difficult for him to lose this habit, which I think is a bad one, but I would defer to more experienced players if they disagreed. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted February 8, 2009 Author Share Posted February 8, 2009 Quote - "Hitting the keys too hard" I really cannot understand this remark.The player is trying to play Irish Music on an English concertina and his style of playing requires a fast action of playing the note to obtain the sound he is producing. Fast playing requires quick finger movement and retreat.What does hitting the keys too hard mean? Why is it a bad habit? There are very few players playing ITM on English concertinas it requires a technique that few have mastered. I agree that if he played quieter he would not have to use such force in button attack, but his fingers would still have to move at exactly the same speed. I have never heard this remark before,I would be grateful if someone would clarify it.Certainly after playing my concertina now for nearly forty years the springs are not going to be affected,age hardening of the brass is more to blame for springs breaking.If the pads are fitted correctly they will not fall off. So is it the bellows force that is being questioned? That has nothing to do with the speed of hitting the buttons.If the buttons are fitted with felt pads that dampens any clacking noises. At least it's a bit warmer today Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 Quote - "Hitting the keys too hard" I really cannot understand this remark.The player is trying to play Irish Music on an English concertina and his style of playing requires a fast action of playing the note to obtain the sound he is producing. Fast playing requires quick finger movement and retreat.What does hitting the keys too hard mean? Why is it a bad habit? There are very few players playing ITM on English concertinas it requires a technique that few have mastered. I agree that if he played quieter he would not have to use such force in button attack, but his fingers would still have to move at exactly the same speed. I have never heard this remark before,I would be grateful if someone would clarify it.Certainly after playing my concertina now for nearly forty years the springs are not going to be affected,age hardening of the brass is more to blame for springs breaking.If the pads are fitted correctly they will not fall off. So is it the bellows force that is being questioned? That has nothing to do with the speed of hitting the buttons.If the buttons are fitted with felt pads that dampens any clacking noises. At least it's a bit warmer today Al That's why I reserved judgement. My facts were well off-base as Alan clearly points out. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Müller Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) I have just been listening to Clunktrip on Utube this player lives in Azerbaijan.I recommend that you listen to him play "Joe Derrane's" a lovely bit of Irish music played on the English Concertina. Al I have indeed wondered about this man many times (and is a little dubious about the Azerbaijan-bit... seems like too exotic, but I am willing to be surprised ) Yes, he does hit his buttons hard and I do the same, but with probably less slapping sounds, since my buttons go all the way down ("Oh, no - there he goes again..."). If I play a "standard" English - which I rarely do, due to pain in my thumb joints - I notice that I slap much more than with my own instrument: no thumbstraps, no pinkie rests, but with an Anglo-like strap. So the explanation could be - only a theory - that the man slaps his buttons in order to get the emphasis he wants. Since I "slap less" on my "unorthodox" EC, it is because I can get a lot of the emphasis with the bellows. On the standard EC, I have to slap since I can't get emphasis by pulling my thumbs. Just a thought - /henrik Edited for spelling and clarity - Edited February 9, 2009 by Henrik Müller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 I have just been listening to Clunktrip on Utube this player lives in Azerbaijan.I recommend that you listen to him play "Joe Derrane's" a lovely bit of Irish music played on the English Concertina. Al I have indeed wondered about this man many times (and is a little dubious about the Azerbaijan-bit... seems like too exotic, but I am willing to be surprised ) Yes, he does hit his buttons hard and I do the same, but with probably less slapping sounds, since my buttons go all the way down ("Oh, no - there he goes again..."). If I play a "standard" English - which I rarely do, due to pain in my thumb joints - I notice that I slap much more than with my own instrument: no thumbstraps, no pinkie rests, but with an Anglo-like strap. So the explanation could be - only a theory - that the man slaps his buttons in order to get the emphasis he wants. Since I "slap less" on my "unorthodox" EC, it is because I can get a lot of the emphasis with the bellows. On the standard EC, I have to slap since I can't get emphasis by pulling my thumbs. Just a thought - /henrik Edited for spelling and clarity - That is how I see it Henrik,it is a method developed to create the style of playing. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Müller Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 ... ... That is how I see it Henrik,it is a method developed to create the style of playing.Al Yup, that's exactly what it is./Henrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) I may indeed be the guilty dog here. Don't have time to go on YouTube at present, but I think I remember the recording and my remark. He is playing a vintage wheatstone, raised, metal end 48? The slapping or hitting the notes with that amount of force, in the end causes excess wear and tear on all the bits attached to the buttons (how's that for technical). I was also concerned by the amount of forcing of the bellows. I did quite a bit of mischief to my old Wheatstone tenor/treble by a very similar technique. It came into my hands barely two years after a rebuild by Mr. Crabb and was air tight, fast and quiet. In the space of two more years an unexceptable amount of wear was caused. When I encountered this YouTube cut it raised the hair on the the back a me neck! There is a line, a fine line between acceptable punch and what from my experience seems like abuse. An EC player trying to emulate an AC player in trad is on an errand that is frought with problems. Now Henrik built an instrument that I'm sure takes into consideration the heavy duty contruction required. Your standard EC Wheatstones (all that I have the right to talk about) from say the early 1920's were not intended to be knocked about in such an extreme fashion. My only concern was to raise a warning flag. On most subjects I'm as full of sheit as a Christmas goose and that could be the case here. Edited February 9, 2009 by Mark Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 I may indeed be the guilty dog here. Don't have time to go on YouTube at present, but I think I remember the recording and my remark. He is playing a vintage wheatstone, raised, metal end 48? The slapping or hitting the notes with that amount of force, in the end causes excess wear and tear on all the bits attached to the buttons (how's that for technical). I was also concerned by the amount of forcing of the bellows. I did quite a bit of mischief to my old Wheatstone tenor/treble by a very similar technique. It came into my hands barely two years after a rebuild by Mr. Crabb and was air tight, fast and quiet. In the space of two more years an unexceptable amount of wear was caused. When I encountered this YouTube cut it raised the hair on the the back a me neck! There is a line, a fine line between acceptable punch and what from my experience seems like abuse. An EC player trying to emulate an AC player in trad is on an errand that is frought with problems. Now Henrik built an instrument that I'm sure takes into consideration the heavy duty contruction required. Your standard EC Wheatstones (all that I have the right to talk about) from say the early 1920's were not intended to be knocked about in such an extreme fashion. My only concern was to raise a warning flag. On most subjects I'm as full of sheit as a Christmas goose and that could be the case here. I prefer your technical write ups Mark,certainly no confusion there. It does require a new approach to playing to just quieten down a bit and relax.It comes back when nerves take over and the force comes back into the bellows.Some also stamp their foot very loudly.(waiting for a foot muffler from Wendy). You are a good chap Mark. 100 lines withdrawn. Al (I am writing mine " I must not stamp my foot" X 100 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiton1 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 I have just been listening to Clunktrip on Utube this player lives in Azerbaijan.I recommend that you listen to him play "Joe Derrane's" a lovely bit of Irish music played on the English Concertina. Al I have indeed wondered about this man many times (and is a little dubious about the Azerbaijan-bit... seems like too exotic, but I am willing to be surprised ) Yes, he does hit his buttons hard and I do the same, but with probably less slapping sounds, since my buttons go all the way down ("Oh, no - there he goes again..."). If I play a "standard" English - which I rarely do, due to pain in my thumb joints - I notice that I slap much more than with my own instrument: no thumbstraps, no pinkie rests, but with an Anglo-like strap. So the explanation could be - only a theory - that the man slaps his buttons in order to get the emphasis he wants. Since I "slap less" on my "unorthodox" EC, it is because I can get a lot of the emphasis with the bellows. On the standard EC, I have to slap since I can't get emphasis by pulling my thumbs. Just a thought - /henrik I had a few thoughts exchanged with "clunctrip", and I can tell you that he lives in Australia and not in Azerbaijan! I think we discussed his playing before on Cnet. I quite like his playing but I do agree that he would use his belows somewhat more, and go a little more easy on tapping the keys it would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Müller Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 ...... I had a few thoughts exchanged with "clunctrip", and I can tell you that he lives in Australia and not in Azerbaijan! ... He, heee - I hate to be right /Henrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Müller Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I may indeed be the guilty dog here. Don't have time to go on YouTube at present, but I think I remember the recording and my remark. He is playing a vintage wheatstone, raised, metal end 48? The slapping or hitting the notes with that amount of force, in the end causes excess wear and tear on all the bits attached to the buttons (how's that for technical). I was also concerned by the amount of forcing of the bellows. I did quite a bit of mischief to my old Wheatstone tenor/treble by a very similar technique. It came into my hands barely two years after a rebuild by Mr. Crabb and was air tight, fast and quiet. In the space of two more years an unexceptable amount of wear was caused. When I encountered this YouTube cut it raised the hair on the the back a me neck! There is a line, a fine line between acceptable punch and what from my experience seems like abuse. An EC player trying to emulate an AC player in trad is on an errand that is frought with problems. Now Henrik built an instrument that I'm sure takes into consideration the heavy duty contruction required. Your standard EC Wheatstones (all that I have the right to talk about) from say the early 1920's were not intended to be knocked about in such an extreme fashion. My only concern was to raise a warning flag. On most subjects I'm as full of sheit as a Christmas goose and that could be the case here. Hi, Mark - just to ensure you that you are not full of [beep] as the Christmas goose: I have been thinking of this - as Hamlet said: "To bang or not bang the buttons - that is the question"... I always have respect for people who speak from practical experience, so yes, I am sure you may do damage that way. What made me think about it was when I listened to myself playing my 48 b raised metal ended Wheatstone - which I don't do very often, due to the thumb pain problems. But when I do, there's a lot of button banging going on, which reflects the style I have developed on my low action buttons/Anglo handstraps-EC - and I realize that I feel a bit uncomfortable doing it (on the "traditional" EC). So I go back and rest my thumbs, banging away on the low action buttons... /Henrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 I may indeed be the guilty dog here. Don't have time to go on YouTube at present, but I think I remember the recording and my remark. He is playing a vintage wheatstone, raised, metal end 48? The slapping or hitting the notes with that amount of force, in the end causes excess wear and tear on all the bits attached to the buttons (how's that for technical). I was also concerned by the amount of forcing of the bellows. I did quite a bit of mischief to my old Wheatstone tenor/treble by a very similar technique. It came into my hands barely two years after a rebuild by Mr. Crabb and was air tight, fast and quiet. In the space of two more years an unexceptable amount of wear was caused. When I encountered this YouTube cut it raised the hair on the the back a me neck! There is a line, a fine line between acceptable punch and what from my experience seems like abuse. An EC player trying to emulate an AC player in trad is on an errand that is frought with problems. Now Henrik built an instrument that I'm sure takes into consideration the heavy duty contruction required. Your standard EC Wheatstones (all that I have the right to talk about) from say the early 1920's were not intended to be knocked about in such an extreme fashion. My only concern was to raise a warning flag. On most subjects I'm as full of sheit as a Christmas goose and that could be the case here. Hi, Mark - just to ensure you that you are not full of [beep] as the Christmas goose: I have been thinking of this - as Hamlet said: "To bang or not bang the buttons - that is the question"... I always have respect for people who speak from practical experience, so yes, I am sure you may do damage that way. What made me think about it was when I listened to myself playing my 48 b raised metal ended Wheatstone - which I don't do very often, due to the thumb pain problems. But when I do, there's a lot of button banging going on, which reflects the style I have developed on my low action buttons/Anglo handstraps-EC - and I realize that I feel a bit uncomfortable doing it (on the "traditional" EC). So I go back and rest my thumbs, banging away on the low action buttons... /Henrik I have just had another look at Clunktrip and I was right he is not using a sledge hammer. It still sounds pretty good to me,as does your playing Henrik. To be serious this problem is just caused by trying to play forcefully/loudly,a bit of relaxation makes a lot of difference. An interesting observation at a recent session was that someone talking at the bar raised his voice as the music got louder and softer when it got quieter so volume makes little difference when playing solo. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Al, you bring up a good point which I may turn on end. The louder one plays, the louder a crowd may talk! When the moon, stars and amount of liquor flowing work up a perfect noise storm, I have pulled a trick, just for my own amusment (for I could give a damn if I'm listened to or not). An a cappella lament, the Girl with the Bonnie Brown Hair, I just start in as if it were just me in the kitchen. Before the first two phrases are gone, the patrons look up..."huh? whaz-dat?" By the end I can be heard very well indeed. Then right off me an' the Tina break into an up tempo Banish Misfortune, mis amigos join in and we end with Slieve Russel at a good swagger. Nice round of clapping every time. Sometimes it's the still small voice. Edited February 17, 2009 by Mark Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 I have just been listening to Clunktrip on Utube this player lives in Azerbaijan.I recommend that you listen to him play "Joe Derrane's" a lovely bit of Irish music played on the English Concertina. Al we are all entitled to our own opinions of what is lovely ,some people think Martin Hayes is a lovely fiddle player others find him mannered,loveliness/beauty is in the eye of the beholder . with the greatest respect , Alan ,some of that which you find lovely,I do not . I havent had a chance to listen to clunktrip .so, no comment . I agree ,everyone has different tastes and they should be respected. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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