The Triplet?

[Ptarmigan]

Triplets on an English Concertina

 

If we agree that the Roll is an essential ingredient, when it comes to playing Irish Music, then surely the Triplet is a must, when it comes to playing Scottish tunes!

 

That being the case, does everyone here, who plays Scottish Music on their English Concertina, employ the use of Triplets to get that authentic Scottish flavour?

 

If so, what is the best &/or easiest way to accomplish the Triplet?

 

Should one be using Three fingers, or are Two enough to get the right sound?

 

To be able to play Triplets with ease, do you need to hold your Concertina at an angle, as Simon does, or is it just as easy to play them with the instrument sitting flat, on your thigh?

 

Any tips will be gratefully received.

 

Cheers

Dick

[Ptarmigan]

Well Grrrrr

 

Triplets on an English Concertina

Dear Ptarmigan,

I'm not able to answer your question as I wear "L" plates on my concertina, but I'd like to ask you a question. I'm learning Irish music, the teacher of my class teaches generally for all the insruments not specially for concertina. He encourages us to use rolls, I can knock them out but it makes the tune hiccup, so I dump them when he's not hitting me with a ruler. Triplets- no problem. Do concertina players of irish music use rolls much? Should I persist? The speed most people of other instruments play at, I don't think anyone would notice and my fingers might catch fire.

regards,

Grrrr.

 

As an Anglo player, when playing Irish tunes, I have always tried to fit in Rolls where they are best suited to the instrument & {most importantly} where they don't interfere with the natural flow of the tune.

 

However, if a particular Roll is just too clumsy on the Concertina to fit in with comfort, I simply leave it out & add some other form of grace note instead.

As Clint Eastwood (or was it Dirty Harry ) said ~ "A man has to know his limitations!"

 

Mind you, in my opinion though, Rolls on a Concertina don't HAVE to use 5 notes, they can be just as effective with fewer notes.

 

Unfortunately, they can sound very clumsy indeed on the English Concertina, whereas Triplets can sound absolutely brilliant on the English Concertina. Hence my quest to find out which is the best way to play them.

 

Cheers

Dick

[chiton1]

Three fingers at any angle.

[Ptarmigan]

Three fingers at any angle.

 

Chiton, am I correct then in assuming that you should attack the button with your Ring Finger first & end with the Index finger?

 

Cheers

Dick

[Grrrr]

Thanks Ptarmigan,

Very helpful,

Grrrr.

[buikligger]

Hello Ptarmigan, Hermann and all,

 

depending on the kind of triplet i use 3 or 2 fingers.

 

e.g. B part of Harvest Home

 

|:fg|addd bddd|c'dbd addd|adbd c'dbd|(3aba (3gfe (3ded (3cBA|

GdBd GdBd|gaba gfed|adbd c'baf|g2 b2 g2:|

 

3g^fe : left ring, right index left middle : :3 different fingers

3ded : right ring, left middle, right ring again: 2 different fingers

3aba: 2

3cBA : 3

 

I always keep the Tina flat on my left knee

 

just my method

 

kind greetings

Dirk

[Ptarmigan]

Hello Ptarmigan, Hermann and all,

 

depending on the kind of triplet i use 3 or 2 fingers.

 

e.g. B part of Harvest Home

 

|:fg|addd bddd|c'dbd addd|adbd c'dbd|(3aba (3gfe (3ded (3cBA|

GdBd GdBd|gaba gfed|adbd c'baf|g2 b2 g2:|

 

3g^fe : left ring, right index left middle : :3 different fingers

3ded : right ring, left middle, right ring again: 2 different fingers

3aba: 2

3cBA : 3

 

I always keep the Tina flat on my left knee

 

just my method

 

kind greetings

Dirk

 

Excellent Dirk, thanks for that. I'm off to give those a try ............ I'll be back .........

[Mark Evans]

Dick, could you define a triplet please, and while at it a roll as well?

 

I've run into trad definition problems before and these two have me scratchin' the back of me noggin as discussed here.

[Ptarmigan]

Dick, could you define a triplet please, and while at it a roll as well?

 

I've run into trad definition problems before and these two have me scratchin' the back of me noggin as discussed here.

 

Hi Mark,

 

Here's some info on Irish ornamentation, which may help.

The three most common melodic moves are, the grace note, the triplet, the roll.

These moves all use "neighbor notes."

Any note within one step of the main melody note can be a neighbor note.

In Irish fiddling, the neighbor note can be two steps away.

 

Grace notes are typically the upper neighbor, one whole step or half step higher.

The grace note is usually played just before the beat.

 

In standard music notation it is shown as a very small note.

 

Triplets start with the melody note, go up to the neighbor note, and return to the melody note.

The rhythm of this is a substitution of three internal beats for two.

 

Think of a shuffle pattern: dah-duh-duh. Now go: diddally-duh-duh.

 

The roll starts on the melody note, goes to the upper neighbor, back to the melody note, then to the lower neighbor, then back to the melody note.

When the melodic note is played with the first finger, the upper neighbor is usually the third above, and is played with the third finger.

In the roll, the neighbor notes are very light and quick, almost ghost notes.

 

Percussive finger and bow tricks

 

These next two moves are a lot of fun.

They imitate the bodhran drum.

I think of them as being rhythmic ornaments, not melodic.

 

The bow shake, (my term), is not intended to make three distinct notes.

You should hear an interruption of the melodic sound when you do it.

Yes, it is a triplet pattern, but done so quickly that you just hear the sound of the bow digging into the string.

 

Finally, the cut, which you execute by dragging your finger across the (usually) open string without changing the bow direction.

This also creates an interruption of the melodic sound.

The violin as a percussion instrument!

 

Irish Fiddle Ornaments

[Mark Evans]

Thought as much.....

 

Thank you for the clarity. I find it better for me to hear a particular trad-type ornament without assigning a term that has a different function in standard notation. They are all twiddles and twaddles for my poor brain. It allows me to just let them happen as a pint or dram directs me.

[tombilly]

Triplets start with the melody note, go up to the neighbor note, and return to the melody note.

The rhythm of this is a substitution of three internal beats for two.

 

That's not strictly correct, I should think. A triplet is just three notes played in the space of two - and ascending or descending triplets are very common - e.g. Bcd, efg etc. What's described in above description, I've heard described as a 'short roll' in terms of accordion playing and might be used as such - i.e. instead of playing long high e on B/C box, play ege etc. Clear as mud!

 

I agree though Mark, it's much better to hear examples of these and just follow the sound.

[Mark Evans]

Triplets start with the melody note, go up to the neighbor note, and return to the melody note.

The rhythm of this is a substitution of three internal beats for two.

 

That's not strictly correct, I should think. A triplet is just three notes played in the space of two - and ascending or descending triplets are very common - e.g. Bcd, efg etc. What's described in above description, I've heard described as a 'short roll' in terms of accordion playing and might be used as such - i.e. instead of playing long high e on B/C box, play ege etc. Clear as mud!

 

I agree though Mark, it's much better to hear examples of these and just follow the sound.

 

Yes, that is what I know a triplet as (nicely done by the way).

 

I often find it confusing to read a tune in the "corrected" O'Neils, in this case Crabs in the Skillet (who could not stop at such a title). I asked our dear tune-smith Connie Patten to play it for me. My Dominique and I then put the two together throwing out the bits that didn't fit from the O'Neils with the exception of the delightful f natural vs. F#s that occured at such odd intervals. It seemed so crab-like to me. Connie's version we felt overused the F#s. After mixing in her twiddles and twaddles, by Jove, a tune has developed under the fingers that we're really enjoying. Makes me kinda hungry for butter sauteed soft-shelled crabs right now!...and a good lager as well .

[Ptarmigan]

triplets are important in most traditional music,they are very useful as an ornament in hornpipes,particularly between the intervalof a third,as a stepping stone eg .f#to d can become f#ed[triplet]what is more important[imo ]in scottish music is the use of quick grace notes,and the scottish Snap.

 

Aye agreed Dick, those quick grace notes & ye olde Scottish Snap are also essential ingredients.

 

However, I personally find those come naturally to me & my fingers, whereas those pesky triplets are to me really awkward little so & so's to bring off cleanly without clattering into the buttons rounds about.

 

Perhaps my fingers are just TOO FAT!

 

Cheers

Dick

[Henrik Müller]

triplets are important in most traditional music,they are very useful as an ornament in hornpipes,particularly between the intervalof a third,as a stepping stone eg .f#to d can become f#ed[triplet]what is more important[imo ]in scottish music is the use of quick grace notes,and the scottish Snap.

...

off cleanly without clattering into the buttons rounds about.

 

Perhaps my fingers are just TOO FAT!

...

- or the EC layout is spaced too narrowly

/Henrik

[Ptarmigan]

Idont agree that the roll is an essential ingredient,it was not used by Donegal fiddlers,it is fine if people want to use it,but it is not essential,it is perfectly acceptable to play irish tunes using other forms of ornamentation other than the roll.

 

Ah but Dick, you know what Comhaltas said about Donegal Music, to justify excluding it from their competitions in the early days? They said Donegal music wasn't Irish Music at all, it was just Scottish Music ... played badly!

 

But speaking of Donegal Music, now there's one type of music you simply can't play without using lots of triplets to bring it off properly.

 

I agree Dick, that different styles of Irish music use the Roll less or more, but for example, Clare music especially is just naturally full of Rolls, so it doesn't sound right somehow, without a few rolls thrown in. In any case, as some Rolls on an Anglo are just so easy to do, it makes no sense not to use them liberally, when playing most styles of Irish Music.

 

On the other hand, on an English Concertina, I believe they are not so easy to get right & that's when other forms of ornamentation are probably better employed.

 

You are quite correct though, when you imply that there is not just one right way to play Irish Music.

Thank goodness we are all able to develop our own styles of playing ............. despite the best efforts of Comhaltas to clone us all!

 

Now, time for more practice .......

 

Cheers

Dick

[Mark Evans]

On the other hand, on an English Concertina, I believe they are not so easy to get right & that's when other forms of ornamentation are probably better employed.

 

Cheers

Dick

 

I was down with everything but this bit. It dosen't pass the smell test unless you are thinking of ornaments as played on the Anglo and expecting that to be the baseline goal of the English concertinist. It has been my experience that ornaments can be beautifully accomplished on the English. English is the focus of this particular thread, nicht war?

[Ptarmigan]

- or the EC layout is spaced too narrowly

/Henrik

 

Hmmmmm Henrik, if I wasn't 18 Stone, I might be tempted to agree with you, but ..............

[RatFace]

If by triplet you mean three notes all the same (e.g. a a a ), then the easiest way is to alternate fingers. Ignoring thumbs, you have four fingers so label them 1 to 4. You can try (practice!) playing scales. Start in the key of c and play a scale - starting on the low c on the left:

 

c d e f etc fingered 1 1 2 2 etc

 

then play

 

cc dd ee ff etc fingered 12 12 21 21 etc

 

then play try

 

ccc ddd eee fff etc fingered 121 121 212 212 etc

 

and then

 

cccc dddd etc etc etc

 

When that becomes easy, try doing the same, but start with the "wrong" finger.

 

When that becomes easy, try doing it in different keys - for the sharps and flats get used to alternating 1 and 2 or 2 and 3 even on the bottom row, if you can.

 

You can also use 3 fingers in sequence - normally 3-2-1 though it's quite tricky. However, it works well when the triplet follows the same note (i.e. it's actually four notes all of the same pitch, but the main beat starts on the second one. For example, you could play:

 

in 6/8 time:

e2c ccc | f2d ddd | with fingering 21 321 | 21 321

 

Example of the 3-finger version here.

 

Also - triplets where you play a different note (on the other side of the concertina) in the middle are really useful because you can use them to change to whatever finger you want and avoid jumping if the fingering is otherwise difficult.

Edited January 9, 2009 by RatFace