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Classic question - Old vs New


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Most seem to agree that one should get the best you can afford. That should help things get moving in the direction that you want.

 

Yup, that's what it comes down to ain't it. My Morse has had the hell played out of it every day since I drove out to Amherst in April 2004 and brought it home. A few minor repairs:the g reed above the staff went off two years ago (only I could hear it), two pads came loose this year and now the low b natural on the left side has a flapping valve on the push. That is nothing compaired to the messing around I had to contend with on my old Wheatstone whose reeds were always getting blocked with microscopic bits.

 

Having the Button Box just an email or phone call away has been great. Bob Snopes was very patient with me on that reed thing, and I was given clear advise on how to deal with the pads since taking the plunge and opening the box up for the first time ever last year, not to mention the wrist straps I installed.

 

Well built, strudy instrument that plays beautifully, sounds good and somebody to come to the rescue should there be a problem...works for me.

Edited by Mark Evans
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I'd go for new because I don't like secondhand stuff....and if I got vintage I think I'd probably outlive the instrument not the other way round. ;P

 

Haha, good point! This instrument will just be a transaction for me, I'm sure. I'm upgrading to have something good and fun to play on for the next few years, and then get something that I can grow old with. (Or do it the Henrik-way and build my own, that feels like the ultimate thing to do. I think I need to work on my carpentry skills first though, more than on my playing.)

 

Still very undecided, but it seems like many people opted for getting the one that plays the best. Leo's link was very helpful, I must say! Upgrading to a Morse or Tedrow or the alike would definately bring me closer to the sound I'm looking for. And all this thinking about concertinas all day has made me play the hell out of poor Konrad (that's what I named my Rochelle)!

 

Oh, but I have to say - I'm still very pleased with the Rochelle! I would never had started playing concertina if I couldn't first get my hands on a cheap one, and I think it performs very well for it's price. I've said it before, but I'm definately keeping it for those really rough condition with lots of sand, water, and/or alcohol.

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I own both vintage(Lachenal) and new ones (Edgley and Geuns-Wakker). I personally prefer the sound of vintage. There were some maintenance issues over years though. Maintenance is also joy to me :P.

New ones are very responsive and playability is far better. They have different tone character (to my ears, Edgley and Geuns are different each other even though they both use accordion style reeds) from vintages but I do like their distinctive sound and play them regularly along with vintage.

 

--

Taka

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I'd go for new because I don't like secondhand stuff....and if I got vintage I think I'd probably outlive the instrument not the other way round. ;P

 

Ah LDT, that strikes like me someone knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing!! ;)

 

edited to add - the analogy's a bit weak alright!!

Edited by tombilly
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I'd go for new because I don't like secondhand stuff....and if I got vintage I think I'd probably outlive the instrument not the other way round. ;P

 

Ah LDT, that strikes like me someone knowing the price of everything but the value of nothing!! ;)

:huh: slightly confused. lol!

 

I wouldn't go out and but a vintage concertina same as I wouldn't go out and buy a vintage/classic car (my brother has a classic car and nearly every week he's replacing some part that's worn out)...its just not...me.

... the history of the instrument wouldn't make me play any better. :blink: :P

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I'd go for new because I don't like secondhand stuff....and if I got vintage I think I'd probably outlive the instrument not the other way round. ;P

Well it already out lived you! Vintage intruments have a lot of charm and personality, I think you would love one, once you got to know it. ;)

Jon

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Gusten,

 

I understand your hesitancy, I feel that too. I have been playing a Rochelle for the last

three months. My skill level, and the rental cost [buttonBox] have been appropriate to my

learning curve. I recently received a custom Edgley from Frank, and it definitely sounds,

plays, and 'feels' better. But the Rochelle felt fine while I played it, even beautiful at times.

I know nothing about vintage instruments, except from recordings. But my Edgley is even

more beautiful to my ears. It seems to me that a skilled player can make a silk purse from

a sow's ear in almost all cases. Move to your level of comfort when you're able. The Rochelle

is a fine instrument. Stick with it until you need a better instrument.

 

Mark

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The product of a musical instrument is the sounds it makes, whilst playability is very important don't sacrifice sound quality for playability. Go for both.

 

The best new instruments do have a couple of drawbacks - price and waiting time.

 

Older instruments come in great variety and if you take your time buying you can get something very very special.

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I wouldn't go out and but a vintage concertina same as I wouldn't go out and buy a vintage/classic car (my brother has a classic car and nearly every week he's replacing some part that's worn out)...its just not...me.

... the history of the instrument wouldn't make me play any better. :blink: :P

 

It is a shaky analogy though, because newer cars are better because of newer technology. However, compare a new Yugo (if they still make them) with a 1960's Rolls-Royce. Maybe the quality in the Rolls would just be far superior to the new Yugo, and presumably if you got the Rolls into perfect running condition it wouldn't need tinkering with?

 

And, not that old Wheatstones are the like, but consider a Stradivarius, compared to a student made violin. Even some of the best made violins today can't compare to the Stradivarius, no matter how fine the craftsmanship.

 

On the other hand there are very well made concertinas (Wakkers, etc.) that aren't Chinese knockoffs. These could be compared to a Lamborghini, and an old Wheatstone to a 1960 Rolls-Royce.

 

Ah, me personally I just love holding history in my hands and knowing that when I play, someone 100 years ago played this same instrument. Though they probably didn't play the "Mario Bros" theme song, or "Star Wars".. ;)

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Though they probably didn't play the "Mario Bros" theme song, or "Star Wars".. ;)

 

Although they might approve and might have played such tunes had they known them back then. I suspect eccentric types have always liked these beasties.

 

Ian

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I'd go for new because I don't like secondhand stuff....and if I got vintage I think I'd probably outlive the instrument not the other way round. ;P

Well it already out lived you! Vintage intruments have a lot of charm and personality, I think you would love one, once you got to know it. ;)

Jon

 

Very true.

Common wisdom of common men usually don't stretch beyond everyday needs and appliances. It doesn't apply to things, made very well. Those may last forever, as far as common men are concerned. But the problem is to know the artifact, know something about maker and manufacturing process. That's why only few are able to enjoy such artifacts, and the rest of us would get nothing out of them. Either we'll buy broken, or look-alike, or be cheated, or underpay and get so-so quality. So if you feel like buying new, you are probably correct, you'll buy peace of mind. No matter how much some praise antique Wheatstones, it comes with the knowledge and obsession. I had antique Wheatstone and was very dissatisfied with it. Not only me! My two attempts to sell it were unsuccessful. So I overpaid for it. It's quality reflected the price and felt like I bought Honda Civic in the skin of Rolls-Roys.

I agree, transfer to better one, when older clearly holds you back, or when you have extra money to waste, which is my New Year's Wish to you all.

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....and if I got vintage I think I'd probably outlive the instrument not the other way round. ;P

You're going to be very, very, old then!

probably live to 100 knowing my luck.

 

 

I wouldn't go out and but a vintage concertina same as I wouldn't go out and buy a vintage/classic car (my brother has a classic car and nearly every week he's replacing some part that's worn out)...its just not...me.

... the history of the instrument wouldn't make me play any better. :blink: :P

 

It is a shaky analogy though, because newer cars are better because of newer technology. However, compare a new Yugo (if they still make them) with a 1960's Rolls-Royce. Maybe the quality in the Rolls would just be far superior to the new Yugo, and presumably if you got the Rolls into perfect running condition it wouldn't need tinkering with?

 

And, not that old Wheatstones are the like, but consider a Stradivarius, compared to a student made violin. Even some of the best made violins today can't compare to the Stradivarius, no matter how fine the craftsmanship.

 

On the other hand there are very well made concertinas (Wakkers, etc.) that aren't Chinese knockoffs. These could be compared to a Lamborghini, and an old Wheatstone to a 1960 Rolls-Royce.

 

Ah, me personally I just love holding history in my hands and knowing that when I play, someone 100 years ago played this same instrument. Though they probably didn't play the "Mario Bros" theme song, or "Star Wars".. ;)

I was think difference between a Rolls Royce and a Zonda or a Bugatti Veyron. :P (yes I do watch Top Gear)

(I'm spending what should be going towards saving for car, insurance and lessons on a new concertina)

 

I'd go for new because I don't like secondhand stuff....and if I got vintage I think I'd probably outlive the instrument not the other way round. ;P

Well it already out lived you! Vintage instruments have a lot of charm and personality, I think you would love one, once you got to know it. ;)

Jon

 

Very true.

Common wisdom of common men usually don't stretch beyond everyday needs and appliances. It doesn't apply to things, made very well. Those may last forever, as far as common men are concerned. But the problem is to know the artifact, know something about maker and manufacturing process. That's why only few are able to enjoy such artifacts, and the rest of us would get nothing out of them. Either we'll buy broken, or look-alike, or be cheated, or underpay and get so-so quality. So if you feel like buying new, you are probably correct, you'll buy peace of mind. No matter how much some praise antique Wheatstones, it comes with the knowledge and obsession. I had antique Wheatstone and was very dissatisfied with it. Not only me! My two attempts to sell it were unsuccessful. So I overpaid for it. It's quality reflected the price and felt like I bought Honda Civic in the skin of Rolls-Roys.

I wouldn't know what to look for with a vintage concertina I'd probably end up being swindled.

And I'd rather have something made for 'me' rather than something that really suits someone else. Its like when you sit in someone else comfy seat...or in my case borrow my sisters shoes.....it feels awkward. ;)

Edited by LDT
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I wouldn't know what to look for with a vintage concertina I'd probably end up being swindled.

 

You'd look for the same things in a vintage concertina as you would in a new one - how good it sounds, how well it plays (and probably how pretty it is). If you deal with someone like Chris Algar at Barleycorn Concertinas, you can't go far wrong.

 

http://www.concertina.co.uk/

 

As for having a new concertina made "just for you", AFAIK the only individual customisation on offer is a non-standard keyboard layout or tuning (unless you want to pay a fortune for a rare wood finish). In other words, most new concertinas (like most old ones) will be standard factory jobs. Concertinas don't really vary in the same way that say, individual fiddles do, where you could play a whole roomful of apparently identical instruments and fix on one that sounds and feels "just right".

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Its like when you sit in someone else comfy seat...or in my case borrow my sisters shoes.....it feels awkward. ;)

 

Ah! but whilst your sister's shoes may feel awkward (at first), they may well be a lot more comfortable than a brand new pair of shoes. Ditto for good quality musical instruments.

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I am watching this space quite carefully because I am already considering moving up to a better instrument and the more informed I am about this the better. Without doubt this forum has been of inestimable help with this and many another thing.

 

Ian

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