Concertina Nederland

[Hereward]

I thought the three colours of the flag stood for the three areas: Ulster, Leinster and Munster I thnk from memory.

 

Ian

 

Ian,

If that were the case, there would have to be four colours - you forgot the province of Connaught!

But then it wouldn't be the Tricolour. What would it be - a Tetracolour? a Quadrocolour?

 

I think up to three colours make a good flag. Flags with four or more colours - in whatever arrangement - always look very "busy" to me.

 

Cheers,

John

 

And that's what comes when an Englishman fails to look up his references first. Just as well we're all mates here.

 

My history interests generally end about a thousand years ago and so I know more about the influences of Indo-European myth on the Gaels, Germanic Tribes etc. than I do about what's happened since. If I have any friends in Connaught, I hope they remember how bad I've been since my school years at geography.

 

Ian

[m3838]

Just to inform you. Have a look at http://concertina.wetpaint.com/. Maybe e reason to learn the Dutch language

There is no need to learn Dutch, it's pretty straight forward as is.

"Op deze site kun je met andere concertinaspelers informatie uitwisselen over instrumenten, docenten, concerten, muziek, enzovoort."

"On this site can you (or we) meet other concertina players, and share information about instruments, tutorials, concerts, music and so on"

[Anglo-Irishman]

Just to inform you. Have a look at http://concertina.wetpaint.com/. Maybe e reason to learn the Dutch language

There is no need to learn Dutch, it's pretty straight forward as is.

"Op deze site kun je met andere concertinaspelers informatie uitwisselen over instrumenten, docenten, concerten, muziek, enzovoort."

"On this site can you (or we) meet other concertina players, and share information about instruments, tutorials, concerts, music and so on"

Ahem!

"On this site, you can exchange information with other concertina players about instruments, teachers, concerts, music and so on."

(Dutch is nearly German )

 

By the way, you Dutchmen: the concertina-playing YouTube surfer must sooner or later stumble over South African Boerenmuziek. There, concertina is written as "konsertina", but the Dutch site uses "concertina". Is "konsertina" used in the Netherlands too?

If I remember my history correctly, the Boers started developing Afrikaans well before the concertina was invented. How are neologisms handled? Do Dutch and Afrikaans still communicate? (English-speaking South Africans speak standard English with the typical colonial accent.)

 

Cheers,

John

[chiton1]

It is true that of the Dutch dialects, the old Friesian dialect ressembles old English the most, especially for the northern part of England and Schotland), aye, the parts where the RRRRRrr is pronounced hard. but there are more dutch dialects in which for example the english word ´gold´ is called ´gold´ and not the usual Dutch word ´goud´. Same for ´old´ and ´oud´.

 

Best wishes,

Marien

 

 

 

I had a Friesian girlfriend once and she would have kicked me if I had said Friesian is a dialect - it is regarded as a separate language. I think it is officially recognized as a separate language (whatever that may imply...).

Edited December 21, 2008 by chiton1

[Ptarmigan]

I had a Friesian girlfriend once and she would have kicked me if I had said Friesian is a dialect - it is regarded as a separate language. I think it is officially recognized as a separate language (whatever that may imply...).

Ha Ha

 

We have that same problem over here, where half the population of Northern Ireland regard Ulster Scots as a real language, while the other half think of it only as a dialect.

 

Cheers

Dick

[Anglo-Irishman]

I had a Friesian girlfriend once and she would have kicked me if I had said Friesian is a dialect - it is regarded as a separate language. I think it is officially recognized as a separate language (whatever that may imply...).

 

Chiton1,

The old, cynical linguists' definition was "A language is a dialect with an army of its own ." Today, we might want to tone that down a bit to, for instance, "A language is a dialect with a beaurocracy of its own."

 

Some beaurocracies, like the Swiss, Belgian and Irish ones, make languages out of two or more dialects, by this definition. I have corresponded with the North Wales Police, and their letterhead is bilingual - so Welsh is a language by the same definition.

But what about Scots Gaelic, which is as much an independent language as Irish Gaelic. When I was last in the Highlands, I noticed an upsurge of interest in it, but I don't think it's a language of beaurocracy yet. So it must be still a dialect of Irish.

The feeling that some super-beaurocrat could make Scots Gaelic an official language, and thus not a dialect any more, with a sweep of his pen, gives me the feeling that this definition is just as wobbly as the "own army" one.

 

Cheers,

John

[chiton1]

I had a Friesian girlfriend once and she would have kicked me if I had said Friesian is a dialect - it is regarded as a separate language. I think it is officially recognized as a separate language (whatever that may imply...).

 

Chiton1,

The old, cynical linguists' definition was "A language is a dialect with an army of its own ." Today, we might want to tone that down a bit to, for instance, "A language is a dialect with a beaurocracy of its own."

 

Some beaurocracies, like the Swiss, Belgian and Irish ones, make languages out of two or more dialects, by this definition. I have corresponded with the North Wales Police, and their letterhead is bilingual - so Welsh is a language by the same definition.

But what about Scots Gaelic, which is as much an independent language as Irish Gaelic. When I was last in the Highlands, I noticed an upsurge of interest in it, but I don't think it's a language of beaurocracy yet. So it must be still a dialect of Irish.

The feeling that some super-beaurocrat could make Scots Gaelic an official language, and thus not a dialect any more, with a sweep of his pen, gives me the feeling that this definition is just as wobbly as the "own army" one.

 

Cheers,

John

 

Well here in France you have Basque and Breton which both have lost their own armies and beaurocracy over time, still it would be very doubtful to call these languages dialects. Linguistically they have nothing in common with French. There was/is a tendency with centralist governments to eradicate these local languages as they were politically unwanted. As it should hinder the creation/existence of a large united French republic. And of course I just mentioned Basque and Breton but there is Corse, Occitans, Alsace....

[Marien]

By the way, you Dutchmen: the concertina-playing YouTube surfer must sooner or later stumble over South African Boerenmuziek. There, concertina is written as "konsertina", but the Dutch site uses "concertina". Is "konsertina" used in the Netherlands too?

If I remember my history correctly, the Boers started developing Afrikaans well before the concertina was invented. How are neologisms handled? Do Dutch and Afrikaans still communicate? (English-speaking South Africans speak standard English with the typical colonial accent.)

 

Cheers,

John

 

Concertina in Dutch is just concertina. South African has its own spelling rules but it is true that south african originates from Dutch. Although for the Dutch it is not very difficult to read the language (or they won't admit that it is difficult), South African is not treated as a dialect but as a different language because it went another way the past centuries, and has developed different expressions and grammar rules. For example, `Don´t worry, everything will be all right´ in Dutch is: ´geen zorgen, alles komt goed´. This may translates to South African like `moe ni worrie ni, alles sal ok wees` (sorry if I am wrong, I am not a South African). Dutch people may be puzzled, whether ´Moe´ is meaning tired, mother or must (moe, moeder of moet). Then the word ´worrie´ comes from the English "worry" it is not from the Dutch language. Then there is two times the word "ni" (pronounced `nee`, meaning not), this construction is not typical for the Dutch language. So you see there are quite some differences only in one line.... Furthermore, the first European immigrants of south africans were sea men, and the language had some `sea talk´ from the start. The word kombuis, which is Dutch for a kitchen on board of a ship, has in South African also been used for a kitchen of a house. Later a great part of the emigrants were farmers (boeren), this also affected the language. More recently during the cold war there was a new wave of emigrants from the Netherlands to South Africa.

 

Obviously there are South African and Dutch people who still communicate, even some concertina players. But like the language, the south African Boerenmusiek developed another direction in another country and may also have kept some very old Dutch songs and tunes we forgot in Europe. In Dutch folk music there are more links and exchange from and to folk scenes in the surrounding European countries.

 

Cheers,

Marien

[Leo]

Ahem!...................................... the concertina-playing YouTube surfer must sooner or later stumble over South African Boerenmuziek. There, concertina is written as "konsertina", but the Dutch site uses "concertina". Is "konsertina" used in the Netherlands too? .......................................

 

Cheers,

John

Hi John

 

I've been known to stumble a few times:

 

US

http://uk.youtube.com/profile?user=konsert...amp;view=videos

 

Canada

http://uk.youtube.com/profile?user=springb...amp;view=videos

 

Africa

 

UK

Oom Japie Laubscher - Ou Waenhuis.

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...hlite=%2Bafrica

 

I'd say fairly well represented. Does it count if they are posted from places other than South Africa?

 

Thanks

Leo

[Chris Timson]

One for the FAQ. Many thanks, Henk.

 

Chris