Concertina Nederland

[Henk van Aalten]

Just to inform you. Have a look at http://concertina.wetpaint.com/. Maybe e reason to learn the Dutch language

[Hereward]

Just to inform you. Have a look at http://concertina.wetpaint.com/. Maybe e reason to learn the Dutch language

 

That looks set to be a good area Henk and I shall watch it grow. I can read Dutch but have always had other languages taking a higher priority and getting in the way of learning Dutch enough to speak or write it. That means I wouldn't be able to post.

 

Ian

[Anglo-Irishman]

Just to inform you. Have a look at http://concertina.wetpaint.com/. Maybe e reason to learn the Dutch language

 

Henk,

Thanks for the heads-up!

 

Like Hereward, I can read Dutch reasonably well (I'm a German-English translator, which helps) though I can't speak or write it. So I will definitely lurk on that website.

 

At first glance, I liked the "Introduction to the concertina" section, with the clear distinctions between English, anglo, accordion and melodion.

 

I think I'll regard the site as a way of learning more Dutch - and a bit more about the concertina, too

 

Cheers,

John

[Guest Peter Laban]

Maybe e reason to learn the Dutch language unsure.gif unsure.gif

 

Unfortunately you will have to put up with the adds being called 'trekkertjes' and other stuff that's best described as 'oubollig'

[Leonard]

Just to inform you. Have a look at http://concertina.wetpaint.com/. Maybe e reason to learn the Dutch language

Nondeju, nòg meer aan m'n PC ipv aan m'n EC ...

[Marien]

Nondeju, nòg meer aan m'n PC ipv aan m'n EC ...

 

Huift toch najt? Kist via concertina.net onnoer meer dialektn uut dien doem zoeng, daai anglios begriepn 't toch najt, of zol-dat aal zo weez'n? Moar der zit ja n knop an dien kompjoeter woar as toe em ale klapscheet oet zet'n kent.

[Leonard]

Nondeju, nòg meer aan m'n PC ipv aan m'n EC ...

 

Huift toch najt? Kist via concertina.net onnoer meer dialektn uut dien doem zoeng, daai anglios begriepn 't toch najt, of zol-dat aal zo weez'n? Moar der zit ja n knop an dien kompjoeter woar as toe em ale klapscheet oet zet'n kent.

Elk zunne weg um noar de knoppe te goan......

[michael sam wild]

My brother studied Old English at University and said the Dutch Friesland dialect was the nearest to Old English, how things change!.

Any good examples of similarities today? Here in NorthEast England we still have many old dialect words from our earlier conquerors so we might recognise some

[buikligger]

Just to inform you. Have a look at http://concertina.wetpaint.com/. Maybe e reason to learn the Dutch language

 

Hi Henk and all,

 

some tina players from Flanders are glad to join the Dutch site. Having the same language makes it easier to communicate,and maybe we can meet somewhere sometimes.

 

Dirk, Belsele, Flanders

[Marien]

Here in NorthEast England we still have many old dialect words from our earlier conquerors so we might recognise some

Hello Michael

 

 

Maybe the problem for english people to understand what I wrote earlier in dialect is that we have other rules to write a certain pronounciation. Like I would write `I` when you would write `EE`. And if I would write `A` it is like in BANANA but not like the A in shame or scandel. The word shame we would write that phonetically as sjeem, and scandel as skendel, although the sj does not quite hit the sh sound. Okay, I´ll stop about this.

 

By the way, `shame and scandel in the family´ translates in dutch to ´schaamte en schande in de familie´, quite similar I think.

 

It is true that of the Dutch dialects, the old Friesian dialect ressembles old English the most, especially for the northern part of England and Schotland), aye, the parts where the RRRRRrr is pronounced hard. but there are more dutch dialects in which for example the english word ´gold´ is called ´gold´ and not the usual Dutch word ´goud´. Same for ´old´ and ´oud´.

 

An old example of similarity: In Rattling roaring Willy there is a line that ends "I cannely keekit ben".

I wonder what means "cannely", maybe can you tell me that?

The last two words there, "keekit ben" do translate to the Dutch "keek naar binnen", don't they?

 

Best wishes,

Marien

[michael sam wild]

Canny in NE England means 'wise or knowing' from kennen 'to know' but it now also means good or well thought of - as in ' a canny lad' or 'it's in canny fettle' meaning in good order or 'do ye ken John Peel?' do you know John Peel? the old song from Cumbria.

 

In N Sheffield we call kids 'bairns' - do you use that or is it more Norse?

 

Joke

A sad looking bloke with horns on his helmet came off a boat and went into a pub on the east coast , the barman said 'Why the long face Ragnar? the bloke said 'cos I'm an 'orse'. Or in your case, maybe the reply would be 'It's bloody cold and I'm freezian!'

Geddit?

Edited December 15, 2008 by michael sam wild

[Chris Drinkwater]

Just to inform you. Have a look at http://concertina.wetpaint.com/. Maybe e reason to learn the Dutch language

 

 

Like Hereward, I can read Dutch reasonably well (I'm a German-English translator, which helps) though I can't speak or write it. So I will definitely lurk on that website

 

Well, I can speak some German, too, but I had a look at the website and het allen kijkt het Dubbele Nederlands aan me! I think it is a great idea. You can't have too many websites devoted to concertinas. I will certainly take a closer look when I have more time.

 

Chris

[Marien]

Yep, knowing somebody is iemand kennen in Dutch.

 

Ja ik ken John Peel (I may say I ken John Peel, but I mistook myself, knowing John Steed and Emma Peel from TV...)

Cannely, "cannely" translates into Dutch as "kennelijk" and "I know" translates to "ik ken".

 

Bairns or barn (like in the song Johnny Todd) is from skandinavian origin, refers to a new born baby: the one who is born, in dutch, 'geborene' (not boring like me).

 

About the joke, did you mean a norwegian or an orse like this?

 

Cheers,

Marien

 

Canny in NE England means 'wise or knowing' from kennen 'to know' but it now also means good or well thought of - as in ' a canny lad' or 'it's in canny fettle' meaning in good order or 'do ye ken John Peel?' do you know John Peel? the old song from Cumbria.

 

In N Sheffield we call kids 'bairns' - do you use that or is it more Norse?

 

Joke

A sad looking bloke with horns on his helmet came off a boat and went into a pub on the east coast , the barman said 'Why the long face Ragnar? the bloke said 'cos I'm an 'orse'. Or in your case, maybe the reply would be 'It's bloody cold and I'm freezian!'

Geddit?

[michael sam wild]

An 'orse, an 'orse my kingdom for an 'orse (Shakespeare, Richard II)

 

The English language is a real mix up. Celtic, Roman, Saxon, Norse, Norman/French , American, Japanese etc... No wha a meen?

We often miss the initial H because after the Anglo Saxons plundered us the Norman French came and did the same and we were subjected to missing out the initial H so we say 'Otel if we are posh or Hotel (Hostel) if we are 'common'

[Marien]

An 'orse, an 'orse my kingdom for an 'orse (Shakespeare, Richard II)

 

The English language is a real mix up. Celtic, Roman, Saxon, Norse, Norman/French , American, Japanese etc... No wha a meen?

We often miss the initial H because after the Anglo Saxons plundered us the Norman French came and did the same and we were subjected to missing out the initial H so we say 'Otel if we are posh or Hotel (Hostel) if we are 'common'

 

Ello Mic´ael,

 

Yep, I´m 'oping I hunderstood.

 

As for the mix up, you may add the Dutch, Russian, Spanish, Indian and Hebrew, Roma, Arabic and possibly more.

 

Sometimes it is difficult to say the english got something from the Dutch, or we both got it from somebody else, like the english word "town", does it come from the german word "zaun", dutch "tuin" or from gaelic "dun", these words seem to have the same "indo german" origin.

 

In the Netherlands, we have a lot of dialects that ignore the written H as well. The strange thing is they pronounce the H when it is not written, 'ope you hunderstand? I don't see any french or anglo saxony connection (although the french were here and the saxons passed our regions on their way to england). Where I was born, people laugh like this "A A A" in stead of "Hahaha".

 

But there have always been different dialects from village to village. People tend to forget the part of their own in the mix, in england that would be the influence of the people that already lived in england before. The celts had their influence, of course, but before them there were other languages (like the one of the picts or the people driven away to the isle of Barra). They may be driven away, but elements may be current language as well. People tend to point to branches of celtic language (ireland, scotland, wales, cornwell and brittany) and there are clear differences between those regions (let's not talk about differences within those regions). People might overlook that these differences in great part are related to the fact that the regions had their different culture before the celts came.

 

Time to sleep. but I am a continental, so it is time for a coca cola night cap.

[Anglo-Irishman]

Sometimes it is difficult to say the english got something from the Dutch, or we both got it from somebody else, like the english word "town", does it come from the german word "zaun", dutch "tuin" or from gaelic "dun", these words seem to have the same "indo german" origin.

 

Fascinating, Marien!

 

Speaking of dialects, I have one, too. I'm from the North of Ireland, the region known as Ulster. Each county has its own accent of course, but as a group, all these accents are distinct from English, southern Irish and Scottish accents. It's a very difficult accent to imitate, because we have an odd way of pronouncing "house", "out", or "cow" and "now".

 

Cut to Essen, North-Rhine-Westphalia, Germany, not far from the Dutch border, where I spent my first few years after moving to Germany. People noticed that I wasn't German as soon as I spoke (though my German was reasonably fluent), but couldn't place me. I didn't sound like an Englishman, nor like an American, so they didn't think my mother tongue was English. So most of them asked if I was Dutch!

Because when I mean to say the German word "Haus" I think of the English word "house" (linguists call that "interference") but it comes out with an Ulster accent exactly like the Dutch word "huis"! And like some Ulster folk (or is it only Co. Antrim folk?) I pronounce my "s" on the back of the tongue, the way a lot of Dutch people do.

 

Then one day I met someone who asked me if I was French. That was because I had a very heavy cold in my nose that day!

 

By the way, a lot of Ulster people still revere William of Orange, and celebrate his greatest military success (or that of his German general Schomberg) with orange sashes and decorations ... So you Nederlandse have a part in creating the flag that adorns Irish festivities (including ITM concertina events). The Irish tricolour is only called "green, white and gold" by republicans. It is actually green, white and orange. It stands for Catholicism (green) and Protestantism (orange) with peace (white) between them.

 

Cheers,

John

[Hereward]

Sometimes it is difficult to say the english got something from the Dutch, or we both got it from somebody else, like the english word "town", does it come from the german word "zaun", dutch "tuin" or from gaelic "dun", these words seem to have the same "indo german" origin.

 

Fascinating, Marien!

 

Speaking of dialects, I have one, too. I'm from the North of Ireland, the region known as Ulster. Each county has its own accent of course, but as a group, all these accents are distinct from English, southern Irish and Scottish accents. It's a very difficult accent to imitate, because we have an odd way of pronouncing "house", "out", or "cow" and "now".

 

Cut to Essen, North-Rhine-Westphalia, Germany, not far from the Dutch border, where I spent my first few years after moving to Germany. People noticed that I wasn't German as soon as I spoke (though my German was reasonably fluent), but couldn't place me. I didn't sound like an Englishman, nor like an American, so they didn't think my mother tongue was English. So most of them asked if I was Dutch!

Because when I mean to say the German word "Haus" I think of the English word "house" (linguists call that "interference") but it comes out with an Ulster accent exactly like the Dutch word "huis"! And like some Ulster folk (or is it only Co. Antrim folk?) I pronounce my "s" on the back of the tongue, the way a lot of Dutch people do.

 

Then one day I met someone who asked me if I was French. That was because I had a very heavy cold in my nose that day!

 

By the way, a lot of Ulster people still revere William of Orange, and celebrate his greatest military success (or that of his German general Schomberg) with orange sashes and decorations ... So you Nederlandse have a part in creating the flag that adorns Irish festivities (including ITM concertina events). The Irish tricolour is only called "green, white and gold" by republicans. It is actually green, white and orange. It stands for Catholicism (green) and Protestantism (orange) with peace (white) between them.

 

Cheers,

John

 

I thought the three colours of the flag stood for the three areas: Ulster, Leinster and Munster I thnk from memory.

 

Ian

[Anglo-Irishman]

I thought the three colours of the flag stood for the three areas: Ulster, Leinster and Munster I thnk from memory.

 

Ian

 

Ian,

If that were the case, there would have to be four colours - you forgot the province of Connaught!

But then it wouldn't be the Tricolour. What would it be - a Tetracolour? a Quadrocolour?

 

I think up to three colours make a good flag. Flags with four or more colours - in whatever arrangement - always look very "busy" to me.

 

Cheers,

John