Help with a couple of things on the EC

[tzirtzi]

Hello all I was wondering whether someone could advise me on a couple of issues?

 

Firstly, I need some help with chords. I would like to add some chords to the Rochdale Coconut Dance - I'm keeping a diary of my learning with bad-quality uploaded videos and audio files here, it's the third entry from the top and I've included the ABC of the music I'm trying to play. I would like the crochets in the third and seventh bars to be chords, plus probably the dotted crochet at the end of each section plus the minim at the very end. But I don't know what chords to add! Also, I was wondering if there was any standard way of doing fingering for chords?

 

Secondly, the fingering of fifths I'm finding difficult. Using the same finger for both notes works fine with staccato or portato, but obviously it's impossible to play legato like this... Is there any standard alternative fingering to use to get around this?

 

Thanks in advance for your helps

[Pete Dunk]

Can't help you with the chords (although I'll take a look at the dots later), but here's a short video I made a while ago about fifth jumps, The Battle of the Somme.

 

Pete.

[tzirtzi]

Thanks - that video will be quite helpful I think! I have watched it through and will try out the fingering in the morning when my playing won't annoy my neighbours

Edited November 26, 2008 by tzirtzi

[Christian Husmann]

Hello all Also, I was wondering if there was any standard way of doing fingering for chords?

 

Secondly, the fingering of fifths I'm finding difficult. Using the same finger for both notes works fine with staccato or portato, but obviously it's impossible to play legato like this... Is there any standard alternative fingering to use to get around this?

 

Thanks in advance for your helps

 

Hello you

 

There are only two ways of fingering chords on the EC (talking of chords that are played only on one side of the instrument):

you can either push the requested notes using one finger or you take another finger available for pushing the buttons seperately.

You can decide which way suits best for which piece of music. Sometimes pushing more than one button is the choice because it doesn´t matter that much regarding staccato, legato and so on.

Sometimes the piece requiers the other version to be more precise.

In general I prefer the one-finger-per-button version.

 

happy playing

Christian

[John Adey]

Hello all I was wondering whether someone could advise me on a couple of issues?

 

Firstly, I need some help with chords. I would like to add some chords to the Rochdale Coconut Dance - I'm keeping a diary of my learning with bad-quality uploaded videos and audio files here, it's the third entry from the top and I've included the ABC of the music I'm trying to play. I would like the crochets in the third and seventh bars to be chords, plus probably the dotted crochet at the end of each section plus the minim at the very end. But I don't know what chords to add! Also, I was wondering if there was any standard way of doing fingering for chords?

 

Secondly, the fingering of fifths I'm finding difficult. Using the same finger for both notes works fine with staccato or portato, but obviously it's impossible to play legato like this... Is there any standard alternative fingering to use to get around this?

 

Thanks in advance for your helps

Since you list Somerset as one of your residences, you might find it helpful to come along to the WCCP meetings at Ruishton where you'd meet lots of experienced players happy to guide you. Take a look at the programme at wccp.co.uk for the dates.

Edited November 27, 2008 by John Adey

[John Adey]

Hello all I was wondering whether someone could advise me on a couple of issues?

 

Firstly, I need some help with chords. I would like to add some chords to the Rochdale Coconut Dance - I'm keeping a diary of my learning with bad-quality uploaded videos and audio files here, it's the third entry from the top and I've included the ABC of the music I'm trying to play. I would like the crochets in the third and seventh bars to be chords, plus probably the dotted crochet at the end of each section plus the minim at the very end. But I don't know what chords to add! Also, I was wondering if there was any standard way of doing fingering for chords?

 

Secondly, the fingering of fifths I'm finding difficult. Using the same finger for both notes works fine with staccato or portato, but obviously it's impossible to play legato like this... Is there any standard alternative fingering to use to get around this?

 

Thanks in advance for your helps

Further thoughts after looking at the notation:

1. Chords on crotchets in bars 3 & 7: how about, on the first crotchet, c, add a low E (part of C major chord) with the 2nd finger of your left hand - you could keep that on for the a and c quavers as well, then, on the b and g, play a low d (part of G major chord) with the first finger on the right ?

2. As for fifths, looking at the e and b in the 1st and 2nd and 5th and 6th bars, bring your first finger across to play the b after playing the e with your second finger. This is called 'cross fingering' and helps you get a legato effect, although after printing out the abc as a pdf document the e crotchet is actually marked as stoccato.

If you want to talk more then PM me and I can let you have my phone number.

Happy practicing.

John

[tzirtzi]

Thanks John and tallship for the advice on fingering fifths - I managing to get somewhat smoother playing by cross fingering, and hopefully that will improve with practice. (The fifths questions was actually not for the Rochdale Coconut Dance, but generally and for a couple of other pieces).

 

John - thankyou for pointing out the WCCP to me. I've had a look and won't be able to come along any time this coming holiday (I'm at uni in Essex so back in the west during the holidays) but will watch out for future possibles . I've tried out your suggestions for chords and they sound good. I wonder, though, whether I was wrong to try to put chords only on the notes I did - I was imitating the Spiers and Boden version of the song, but with the concertina on its own the contrast between chords and single notes seems a bit too obvious... I'll have to experiment further.

 

And thanks Christian for your advice on fingering chords!

[Dirge]

The WCCP weekends at Kilve in spring and autumn are a great laugh too. Well recommended. There's so much going on you almost learn by osmosis.

 

I'm a duet player so I don't know how relevant this is to English technique, but I find myself 'barring' 2 notes together with one finger routinely whenever I can these days; it keeps more fingers free for other notes, especially if you are trying to play smoothly. The only thing to watch is that you bring the finger down fairly square (which need not mean 'flat') so that both notes sound together.

[John Adey]

I've tried out your suggestions for chords and they sound good. I wonder, though, whether I was wrong to try to put chords only on the notes I did - I was imitating the Spiers and Boden version of the song, but with the concertina on its own the contrast between chords and single notes seems a bit too obvious... I'll have to experiment further.

 

I don't know the version you mention I'm afraid, but I know what you mean about the chorded section standing out, it can sound a bit clumsy and unsubtle if given the same emphasis as the melody note on concertina. It might help just to give a very light (quick) touch on the additional keys so that you don't keep the harmony on for the full value of the melody note - Alistair Anderson does that sort of things particularly well, filling out a single line with great subtlety.

 

Adding to Dirge's comment, I think you'd get a lot out of the March Kilve coming up in 2009; we've got Robert Harbron tutoring on English. His chord work is stunning and he's an excellent tutor I'm told.

[Ishtar]

Can't help you with the chords (although I'll take a look at the dots later), but here's a short video I made a while ago about fifth jumps, The Battle of the Somme.

 

Pete.

 

That was nice, Pete.

 

One of my favourite tunes.

[michael sam wild]

The WCCP weekends at Kilve in spring and autumn are a great laugh too. Well recommended. There's so much going on you almost learn by osmosis.

 

I'm a duet player so I don't know how relevant this is to English technique, but I find myself 'barring' 2 notes together with one finger routinely whenever I can these days; it keeps more fingers free for other notes, especially if you are trying to play smoothly. The only thing to watch is that you bring the finger down fairly square (which need not mean 'flat') so that both notes sound together.

 

I'm working on Maccann duet and find myself doing that. At first I wondered whether it was not 'kosher' but then I thought that's how my guitar heroes do it, go for the quickest way!

Mike

[michael sam wild]

Besides we are bigger and fatter( more muscular?) now than when the instruments were made> So we need to adapt. My Dad was a working man all his life, 5 ft 7inches from a poverty stricken family ( a sailor, soldier, farm worker, miner, steel erector - a very hard life) but I am 6ft and my fingers are much thicker and all I was was a student, climber, gardener, but much better fed and I didn't smoke or breathe in pollution. My sons , all 5 of them., are, on average, bigger still without doing too much in the way of athleticism.

 

I think we've reached the optimum size and finger dimensions in their generation. What does this mean for instrument size and design?

 

Mike ,

[Pete Dunk]

That was nice, Pete.

 

One of my favourite tunes.

I thought I might get a bit of stick over the slow tempo, the highland pipers seem to rattle it off with gusto but I think it makes a lovely slow air. I must get around to recording it with the B part some time!

[Boney]

I thought I might get a bit of stick over the slow tempo

The Battle of the Somnambulant?

[Dirge]

That was nice, Pete.

 

One of my favourite tunes.

I thought I might get a bit of stick over the slow tempo, the highland pipers seem to rattle it off with gusto but I think it makes a lovely slow air. I must get around to recording it with the B part some time!

 

It's a bit baffling; played really mournfully, sentiment piled on with a trowel, it's a very good tune. But I heard it rattled off by a pipe band at march pace and it's rubbish, really lacklustre. I feel that the Pipe Major chap could have another 'Amazing Grace' on his hands if he treated it right. I can't be bothered to tell him though...can anyone else?

[Hereward]

That was nice, Pete.

 

One of my favourite tunes.

I thought I might get a bit of stick over the slow tempo, the highland pipers seem to rattle it off with gusto but I think it makes a lovely slow air. I must get around to recording it with the B part some time!

 

It's a bit baffling; played really mournfully, sentiment piled on with a trowel, it's a very good tune. But I heard it rattled off by a pipe band at march pace and it's rubbish, really lacklustre. I feel that the Pipe Major chap could have another 'Amazing Grace' on his hands if he treated it right. I can't be bothered to tell him though...can anyone else?

 

I loved it at that speed but I like English music and my melodeon teacher always reminded me that a jig was a dance and playing it too fast (without mentioning names) was a no, no.

 

Ian

[davidcorner]

That was nice, Pete.

 

One of my favourite tunes.

I thought I might get a bit of stick over the slow tempo, the highland pipers seem to rattle it off with gusto but I think it makes a lovely slow air. I must get around to recording it with the B part some time!

 

It's a bit baffling; played really mournfully, sentiment piled on with a trowel, it's a very good tune. But I heard it rattled off by a pipe band at march pace and it's rubbish, really lacklustre. I feel that the Pipe Major chap could have another 'Amazing Grace' on his hands if he treated it right. I can't be bothered to tell him though...can anyone else?

The tune was originally written as a Retreat March in 9/8 tempo, so it is intended to be marched to.

It's certainly not a jig, so it shouldn't be played at that speed.

Most retreat marches are in 3/4 tempo, three paces to the bar, and a 9/8 retreat march is played at the same marching speed.

Having said that, there is nothing to stop you slowing it down and treating it as a slow air.

There's a march, "Farewell to Nigg", that is very effective when slowed down to a slow air.

[SteveS]

The tune was originally written as a Retreat March in 9/8 tempo, so it is intended to be marched to.

It's certainly not a jig, so it shouldn't be played at that speed.

Most retreat marches are in 3/4 tempo, three paces to the bar, and a 9/8 retreat march is played at the same marching speed.

Having said that, there is nothing to stop you slowing it down and treating it as a slow air.

There's a march, "Farewell to Nigg", that is very effective when slowed down to a slow air.

 

9/8 - that's nine paces to the bar - so can retreat 3 times faster than when marching in

 

Steve