Playing speed

[pickinduck]

I have had my concertina for a little while now and I've been having fun with it

I found some sheet music for JAMBALAY and printed it out then I researched and wrote the tabs on it.

Well it and a few other songs made me wonder about what all effects playing speed.

Being a new player makes me play slower.

I read that new concertinas have stiff bellows, is this true and does it make you play slower?

Can you play some types of concertinas or accordions faster then others?

Can you play english concertinas faster then anglo concertinas?

Can you play piano accordions faster then button accordions?

[Pete Dunk]

Why the obsession with speed?

 

As a sort of reply to your question I've seen and heard dazzling displays of speed on most instruments you'd care to mention, the entertainment value varied quite a lot!

 

Mostly the build quality and response of the instrument in question determins its maximum speed. To reach that speed and produce an expressive performance requires a player of great skill of course.

 

Keep practising.

[Steve Mansfield]

Why the obsession with speed?

 

<snip>

 

Keep practising.

 

Two very good points.

 

To answer one of your questions, stiff bellows will affect the volume you can achieve (because they will travel less far in the same amount of time than slack bellows), but the speed of your playing will be determined far more by your fingers than the bellows.

 

There are no faster instruments, just faster players. Savour the tune, don't just try to fly through it as quickly as possible and get on to the next one, which is a habit amongst some (but by no means all) musicians of all standards.

 

Being able to play fast is one skill amongst many that you need to become a decent musician, and is most certainly not to be pursued as an end in its own right!

 

Keep at it ...

[Leonard]

Why the obsession with speed?

 

As a sort of reply to your question I've seen and heard dazzling displays of speed on most instruments you'd care to mention, the entertainment value varied quite a lot!

 

Mostly the build quality and response of the instrument in question determins its maximum speed. To reach that speed and produce an expressive performance requires a player of great skill of course.

 

Keep practising.

I do agree, but from previous posts of Pickinduck I don't get the impression he(she?)'s an average speed devil: sea shanties, jambalaya....

It's a fair question: "after a year of practising, I'm still playing things too slow. Is it just me, beginning player, or is my instrument holding me back? "

When I exchanged my first concertina for a better one I was really glad to find out that -for example- better responding reeds can help so much to progress.

[John Adey]

There are no faster instruments, just faster players. Savour the tune, don't just try to fly through it as quickly as possible and get on to the next one, which is a habit amongst some (but by no means all) musicians of all standards.

 

Being able to play fast is one skill amongst many that you need to become a decent musician, and is most certainly not to be pursued as an end in its own right!

 

Keep at it ...

 

Whilst agreeing with most of what you say Steve, in my experience there are 'faster instruments' in that there's a range of responsiveness; some instruments are not very responsive and there is a delay between finger/ bellows action and the sound coming from the instrument. On an unresponsive instrument speed of playing will be far more difficult to achieve. Having said that though, I also query the wish for speed. I.M.O. speed is often a mistake in that the music gets lost in a display of supposed virtuosity, particularly in players of Irish music it seems.

Slow down and let's hear the music!

(For an example of superb slow concerina playing, I suggest listening to Noel Hill playing 'Lament for Limerick'; a slow air that will bring tears to your eyes and a lump to your throat.)

[Pete Dunk]

When I exchanged my first concertina for a better one I was really glad to find out that -for example- better responding reeds can help so much to progress.

 

Well I did say that build quality and response of the instrument determines its maximum speed; and yes, a poor instrument will hold a developing player back, in fact some of the really cheap ones will put a player off altogether because they are so hard to play.

 

The question about one instrument type vs another in terms of speed rather baffled me to be honest. Surely the question should be based around pickinduck's existing concertina and the potential that has to hold him/her back. If it turns out that the instrument is indeed the problem then what quality or type of instrument would improve the situation would be the next question.

 

Or did I miss something?

[Leonard]

The question about one instrument type vs another in terms of speed rather baffled me to be honest. Surely the question should be ............

 

Or did I miss something?

Nothing wrong with the question "what effects playing speed?". It doesn't necessarily imply "obsession for speed". I gave just an example of what else could raise that question before you are a player of great skill.

[Pete Dunk]

I gave just an example of what else could raise that question before you are a player of great skill.

As I am not and never will be a player of great skill there is little point in me continuing this debate and I must yield to your superior knowledge.

 

Pete.

[m3838]

I have had my concertina for a little while now and I've been having fun with it

I found some sheet music for JAMBALAY and printed it out then I researched and wrote the tabs on it.

Well it and a few other songs made me wonder about what all effects playing speed.

Being a new player makes me play slower.

I read that new concertinas have stiff bellows, is this true and does it make you play slower?

Can you play some types of concertinas or accordions faster then others?

Can you play english concertinas faster then anglo concertinas?

Can you play piano accordions faster then button accordions?

 

Button Accordions are invariably faster than similar quality piano accordions, the buttons are closer together. Due to this fact, the range of them is 1.5 times wider, but also they tend to be heavier.

English Concertinas are faster than Anglo Concertinas, their range tends to be wider, and they are heavier, having more reeds.

Absolutely a well made Russian Bayan is possible to be played wa-ay faster than Mark Savoy's Cajun one row.

With all of the above, when it comes to real playing, the differences between types are hardly viable. The only venue, I heard, when it still matters, are accordion "competitions", where speed wins hands down. Because of this reason, I heard, most, if not all, winners play Button Chromatic Accordions, and disproportionate measure of them are Russian Bayan players. But even in Russia, these players mostly amaze geriatric audiences for few minutes, then go into oblivion. Far more famous are those playing with rock bands, where they deliver the emotion and energy, but hardly fine renditions of "Flight of the Bumble Bee" (not to say they couldn't if they wanted to).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFSRVGwkagg...feature=related Rock Band of Fyodor Chistjakov, "Zero"

Same

Famous professional "Folk"player Derbenko plays russian diatonic uni-sonoric garmonika.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDIVm9EoAvQ...feature=related famous group, famous russian song, famouse bayan player, famouse bayan solo, but stupid cameraman keeps on the two singers most of the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TccoLFTHdTg...feature=related same song, same singer, but alone, faking playing it on diatonic.

masterful murder of exceptionally beautiful song

same song, classical singing, usual Soviet style arrangement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YekVp2rSl0Q...feature=related There you go. French version.

[Steve Mansfield]

Whilst agreeing with most of what you say Steve, in my experience there are 'faster instruments' in that there's a range of responsiveness; some instruments are not very responsive and there is a delay between finger/ bellows action and the sound coming from the instrument. On an unresponsive instrument speed of playing will be far more difficult to achieve.

 

Fair cop; I was, I think, responding more generically to the thought that there might be some league table of instrument speeds, and so missed the point about the responsiveness of the individual instrument.

[geoffwright]

I personally, don't think stiff bellows slow a box down, leaky bellows or "slack" action certainly might though.

As regards speed on english vs anglo, theres not much in it (in the hands of a good player). Personally, I find some tunes faster on english, and others faster on anglo, no hard and fast rule. It is not just playing speed either, some phrases might be easier to finger on one box than the other.

[Pete Dunk]

I gave just an example of what else could raise that question before you are a player of great skill.

As I am not and never will be a player of great skill there is little point in me continuing this debate and I must yield to your superior knowledge.

 

Pete.

 

Well, crosspatch me! We all have bad days and react badly to 'perceived criticism' but even by my standards this was a tad OTT.

[Chris Drinkwater]

(......... a slow air that will bring tears to your eyes and a lump to your throat.)

 

Unfortunately, in my case, so will peeling an onion or having my t*******s squeezed, regardless of speed.

 

Chris