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Success with lubrication


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As long as I've played concertinas, I've understood one of the cardinal rules to be, "Never use any type of lubricant inside your concertina."

 

The other day a key on my Morse Ceili (#175, five years old last month) started sticking. At first I thought the problem was with the pad failing to seal, as both notes were sounding. After opening things up and finding that the pad was not wobbly, I realized that the problem was in the pivot point, i.e., where the arm is rivetted to the post. The more I worked it, the stiffer it seemed to get!

 

I put in a call to The Button Box and spoke to Bob, their chief technician. He told me that it could be a bad rivet (though it's worked fine for five years, on a heavily used key), a burr that had worked itself into an obstructing position, or a piece of external crud that had somehow lodged itself in the joint.

 

Bob suggested trying a small drop of light machine oil on the joint. I decided to use Tri-Flow, a bicycle lubricant, because I had some on hand, and it comes with an extremely narrow applicator tube that would allow me to place a minute amount directly on the suspect spot. Bob also suggested having some Q-tips (cotton swabs) on hand to mop up any excess. Finally, he said that if it didn't work, we would need to replace the arm assembly.

 

As it turned out, a tiny drop did the trick, and I couldn't find any drippings to worry about.

 

I'm adding the Tri-Flow to my repair kit. The heck with the rules!

Edited by Michael Reid
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On the advice of a well-respected concertina maker, I have used small drops of oil on the coils of springs whose lever arms aren't closing properly, and this has been very helpful for me in resolving the problem of pads not fully closing when there is no other more obvious reason for this to be happening. I guess the reason for this is that there is friction in the coil keeping the spring from functioning properly. A toothpick can be used in the application of the minidrop, and anybody doing this might want to practice a time or two to avoid applying excess oil.

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I have successfully ignored those who abhor the idea of applying lubricant to the springs and pivots of a concertina. Very, very occasionally, using a very small, good quality, fine tipped, sable-haired artists water colour paint brush I apply a miniscule and virtually invisible smear of very thin mineral oil to the pivots and spring-coils The amount I apply is far too small to risk the possibility of any of it migrating elsewhere and is too small to attract dust particles but is, I reckon, enough to help towards countering any metal-to-metal friction and consequent wear and to enhance the smooth running of the instrument. It is certainly not a task for the heavy-handed.

 

( Not the first time I have posted something similar on this subject......sorry ! )

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Perhaps I soaked too many bicycle chains in kerosene to clean the gunk off of them in my youth. I'll stick to a dry, graphite lubricant for levers and resist using oil lubricants whenever possible on concertinas.

 

I just want to be conservative and think long term. After all, if I live long enough, I might be the repair person pulling the lever posts and soaking the action in solvent to loosen the contaminated oil residue if it turns out to be a long term problem.

 

I'm not saying its wrong; I know you guys love your concertinas and would never do anything deliberate to impair them. And I'm glad you are being conservative and cautious in your application.

 

I personally saw a beautiful Dipper bellows ruined by over application of a leather conditioner. The recommendation for the conditioner was said to come from the Dippers themselves. The problem, no doubt, stemmed from an over zealous following of basically good advice.

 

Be cautious; we want to leave these concertinas for the generations to follow.

 

Greg

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Perhaps I soaked too many bicycle chains in kerosene to clean the gunk off of them in my youth. I'll stick to a dry, graphite lubricant for levers and resist using oil lubricants whenever possible on concertinas.

 

I just want to be conservative and think long term. After all, if I live long enough, I might be the repair person pulling the lever posts and soaking the action in solvent to loosen the contaminated oil residue if it turns out to be a long term problem.

 

I'm not saying its wrong; I know you guys love your concertinas and would never do anything deliberate to impair them. And I'm glad you are being conservative and cautious in your application.

 

I personally saw a beautiful Dipper bellows ruined by over application of a leather conditioner. The recommendation for the conditioner was said to come from the Dippers themselves. The problem, no doubt, stemmed from an over zealous following of basically good advice.

 

Be cautious; we want to leave these concertinas for the generations to follow.

 

Greg

Interesting Greg.The manufacture of these bellows (old method) was to use flour and water paste and anything that breaks that down, like standing in the rain is trouble.I once saved a set of bellows that had been left in an airing cupboard and were cracking as I was trying to get the concertina out of the box.

So I had nothing to lose.Too much oil and you will find it blown into the centre of your concertina.I have however successfully used a small quantity of silicone oil for sticking buttons and riveted action.It is normally sold in Aerosol format so if you want to use it squirt it into the lid and use a tiny amount on a tiny brush for application.I never use anything on my Jeffries if the button is sticking then they need investigating.It is only the cheaper concertinas who's buttons are sticking that I would think about using a lubricant.

Al

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I recently had a minor problem with a couple of lever pivots on my Æola and used dry graphite powder with great success. Graphite doesn't have any of the issues associated with oil type products and is easily applied with a small artists paint brush to the exact spot where it's needed.

 

If you need just a tiny amount buy a soft pencil or a graphite stick from an art shop and rub this on a fine file to produce your own powder. :)

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I recently had a minor problem with a couple of lever pivots on my Æola and used dry graphite powder with great success. Graphite doesn't have any of the issues associated with oil type products and is easily applied with a small artists paint brush to the exact spot where it's needed.

 

If you need just a tiny amount buy a soft pencil or a graphite stick from an art shop and rub this on a fine file to produce your own powder. :)

 

I have used dry graphite powder on sticking buttons of my Wheatstone .It should be available from any good Locksmith

as it is used for lubricating Locks and key barrrels .ATB Bob

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As long as I've played concertinas, I've understood one of the cardinal rules to be, "Never use any type of lubricant inside your concertina."

 

I think the rule should be to never use any liquid lubricant

 

I would always try graphite powder first, and I've never needed to use oil as a second choice. It can be difficult to get a powder into the interior of a pivot, and for that application I use alcohol as a carrier for the graphite, the mixture is easy to apply with a fine brush, or a toothpick. The liquid rapidly capillaries its way into the joint taking the graphite with it, and the alcohol evaporates leaving a coating of graphite in the pivot.

 

I'm with Greg on this in being cautious and conservative. I've had to spend too much time in undoing the after effects of maintenance by the well-meaning but misguided. Why risk using a second best material (oil) when a better lubricant (graphite) is effective, cheap, readily available, and easy to use. No contest.

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As it turned out, a tiny drop did the trick, and I couldn't find any drippings to worry about.

 

I'm in the powdered graphite camp. I've had periodic problems with one button; several pro adjustments didn't fix it. A minute dab of graphite about once a year keeps it ship shape.

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As it turned out, a tiny drop did the trick, and I couldn't find any drippings to worry about.

 

I'm in the powdered graphite camp. I've had periodic problems with one button; several pro adjustments didn't fix it. A minute dab of graphite about once a year keeps it ship shape.

Ah but the lubricant used was Tri Flow utterly wonderful stuff It is a P T F E loaded lube and we can only get a poor imitation in the U K

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  • 4 months later...

Hi ,I've got an action on one button on an Aeola that is way too stiff............I've taken the spring off and as you gently saw-saw the arm, it is just plain stiff. Setting the spring to overcome this makes the button unusable.

I was looking on-line for some graphite lubricant and found one tube for $1.89 plus $18 shipping ! .

Tried You-tube next (!) and found this .............

Before I try it, any suggestions as to whether in fact this would be sufficiently fine or even appropriae ?

Thanks

Robin

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Hi ,I've got an action on one button on an Aeola that is way too stiff............I've taken the spring off and as you gently saw-saw the arm, it is just plain stiff. Setting the spring to overcome this makes the button unusable.

I was looking on-line for some graphite lubricant and found one tube for $1.89 plus $18 shipping ! .

Tried You-tube next (!) and found this .............

Before I try it, any suggestions as to whether in fact this would be sufficiently fine or even appropriae ?

Thanks

Robin

You might end up with graphite contaminated with abrasive.

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When I was a lad in the 50s and was on a scouts climbing trip, I went to the working graphite mine in Borrowdale near Keswick in the Lake District because I admired and used their pencils for sketching. . The old boy, who showed me round explained that it was a 'slape' (slipperyy ) kind of carbon.. Since then I have used it for many lubricating jobs where you don't want an oxidation or other atmospheric conversion to a sticky goo. I often use a recently scraped pencil to ease a joint or button on the conc. I'd welcome an explanation of how that form of carbon is a good lubricant.

 

My Uncle, Dr Ronnie Reed was a Reader in leather technology at Manchester University in the 60s who was involved in opening up the Dead Sea Scrolls. He also worked on Egyptian mummies at Manchester Musum and always advocated the minimum organic lubricant which he said always turned into gunk with time and liquidised the leather etc. He used to curse the honey they dribbled on the wrappings. ! He always said long chain organic molecules will grab and add all sorts of side chains with unforeseeable results. Summat to do with entropy I think?

 

 

All organic stuff wants to turn to slime and find its way back to the source! ( see my compost heap) Silicon must rule over Carbon as a stable etravalent element but it's so rigid it's boring and doesn't surprise you! Imagine a world based on silicon rather than Carbon.

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Hi ,I've got an action on one button on an Aeola that is way too stiff............I've taken the spring off and as you gently saw-saw the arm, it is just plain stiff. Setting the spring to overcome this makes the button unusable.

I was looking on-line for some graphite lubricant and found one tube for $1.89 plus $18 shipping ! .

Tried You-tube next (!) and found this .............

Before I try it, any suggestions as to whether in fact this would be sufficiently fine or even appropriae ?

Thanks

Robin

You might end up with graphite contaminated with abrasive.

Hi Guys

 

A while back I thought, and used a pencil for the graphite as a dry lubricant, however I found it has a property that is not so desirable. The binding agent is clay, a not so desirable abrasive.

 

Here is the previous discussion: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4094

 

I still use it for other stuff, but not in my concertina.

 

Thanks

Leo

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When I was a lad in the 50s and was on a scouts climbing trip, I went to the working graphite mine in Borrowdale near Keswick in the Lake District because I admired and used their pencils for sketching. . The old boy, who showed me round explained that it was a 'slape' (slipperyy ) kind of carbon.. Since then I have used it for many lubricating jobs where you don't want an oxidation or other atmospheric conversion to a sticky goo. I often use a recently scraped pencil to ease a joint or button on the conc. I'd welcome an explanation of how that form of carbon is a good lubricant.

Mike,

The lubrication properties of graphite are thought to be due to its molecular structure. In graphite the carbon atoms are linked together in flat hexagons to form an open lattice sheet structure. Successive sheets are stacked next to each other like a pack of cards. In normal conditions it is thought that water molecules and air are adsorbed on to the graphite lattice between each sheet, and this helps the sheets slide very easily over each other and hence gives graphite its lubricating properties.

 

Quite a good account of graphite here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite

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  • 9 years later...

" Imagine a world based on silicon rather than Carbon."

 

I'm a bit late coming here, just to make a (possibly) facetious comment.

 

I'm sure that "Bones" McCoy (Star Trek) made the same, or a very similar, remark to Captain Kirk in an episode of the original Star Trek. Just mentioning!

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