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Ptarmigan
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I'm curious though, are 5 bellows really far too few for that Bass Concertina, after all there is a huge space inside that set of bellows?

 

Cheers

Dick

 

I think you are right, the volume would be about 88/36 larger compared to a 5 fold 6 inch concertina. With five bellows on this bass concertina you are moving the same amount of air for a normally sized concertina with 12 folds in stead of 5. Even if the bass reeds take more wind, this seems more than enough to me.

 

I am happy to stand corrected. With me it was probably a mental block in accommodating the single action and I kept running out of air at the 'wrong' times, and that was trying a bigger bass with more bellows!!

 

Regards

 

-John

 

edited for typing errors

Edited by John Wild
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The third appears to be a Mayfair Wheatstone, metal-ended, but mostly of mahogany, rather than rosewood, construction. It comes with a standard leather Wheatstone case, but the 3,000GBP price is enough to scare anybody! (comparable Lachenal 30-button Anglos can be had for about 800GBP, about 1/4 of this reserve)

If you bothered to read the description properly you would find that this is no less than a Steve Dickinson Wheatstone (!) and as such is a far cry from a 'Mayfair'

 

Lastly is another Wheatstone Anglo, at 1600GBP. About 2x what the comparable Lachenals usually go for.

I assume that you recognise the vendor? I should also add that fully restored half decent 30 key anglos simply aren't available in the UK for £800 - Lachenal or otherwise.

 

I'm a collector, player and restorer of vintage concertinas.

If you can't tell the difference between a Dickinson and a Mayfair I'd consider quitting as a collector. ;)

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I should also add that fully restored half decent 30 key anglos simply aren't available in the UK for £800 - Lachenal or otherwise.

 

I dunno, I think Chris himself was selling Lachenal 'mahogany' ended C/G anglos last year for around £800 and 'rosewood' ones for around £1500

Edited by tombilly
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I notice with interest that, what look like, four very nice Concertinas on eBay right now, haven't had a single bid between them!

Is this a sign that the credit crunch is starting to bite, or just an indication that everyone has all the concertinas they need? ;)

Lachenal Concertina

Bass Concertina

Wheatstone 30 Key Anglo

Wheatstone 30 Key Anglo

Even in good times, a lot of Chris Algar's ebay postings fail to get a single bid. He sometimes uses ebay to sell things that he picks up that he doesn't want to keep in stock, and those are priced to sell. But I think he also uses it sometimes, as here, as a kind of shop window and to say "look what I've got" when he has something unusual. I think a lot of latter end up being sold by private negotiation.

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Even in good times, a lot of Chris Algar's ebay postings fail to get a single bid. He sometimes uses ebay to sell things that he picks up that he doesn't want to keep in stock, and those are priced to sell. But I think he also uses it sometimes, as here, as a kind of shop window and to say "look what I've got" when he has something unusual. I think a lot of latter end up being sold by private negotiation.

If that's the case, then all I can say is fair play Ivan.

 

After all, he provides a truly wonderful service.

 

Cheers

Dick

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I think it's the high starting prices, really. At that level, you're not going to bid casually, and it's really only casual bidders who bid before the last 5 minutes these days.

 

I think I've only once seen a bass - didn't Roger Watson used to play one? I'm going up to visit Chris soon, so I'm kind of hoping it doesn't sell so I can see this one. What are the implications of being single-action?

 

wg

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What are the implications of being single-action?

Hi Wendy,

 

One reed per key, rather than two. Air is taken into the concertina on the draw (large vents in the bellows), and the notes sound on the push. This makes for a lighter instrument than might be imagined. This is normal for a bass instrument.

 

Regards,

Peter.

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Steve Turner said at Whitby he is always on the lookout for a bass/baritone English, why are they so rare?

I'll speculate that it's bound up with the history of how English system concertinas were used.

 

Bass and baritone instruments would frequently have been used within a "band" setting, and any photographs which I've seen clearly show trebles being the most numerous, followed by tenors, baritones and basses in approximately equal numbers.

 

I have not spent enough time in the Wheatstone Ledgers to see when the baritone/treble and bass/baritone instruments first made an appearance, but it strikes me that only a very advanced player would ever need the range provided by an instrument of 64 (sometimes 56) keys. I would class it more as a soloist's instrument.

 

I would class the bass/baritone as very much a specialist's instrument.

 

I'm only aware of one C.net member who has a bass/baritone, and another who had one for sale some years ago (I presume that it's long gone).

 

I can hear Steve's voice in my head, despite not having heard it for many years, and could "see" a bass/baritone suiting his vocal range. Sadly, I believe his search will continue for a while, yet.

 

Regards,

Peter.

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Steve Turner said at Whitby he is always on the lookout for a bass/baritone English, why are they so rare?

Oh how times change. I saw Bernard Wrigley last year, and he told the tale of how he found his bass concertina in a second-hand shop in Manchester, in the sixties. The shop had three on the shelf, and Bernard bought them all. He said he had never seen so much disbelief and joy on the face of a shopkeeper.

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I remember seeing Mike Harding playing a bass concertina to accompany one of his self-penned songs, "The Ghost of the Cafe Gunga Din". If anyone has seen him perform this, the verbal introduction (an allegedly true story about a drunk eating his own handkerchief in mistake for a chapati) is far longer than the song itself (and much funnier).

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Thanks for the explanation. I have to say that I've never quite understood why trebles were the popular ones; I think the lower notes are far better for accompanying singing, and they are much nicer to listen to. Some of the high notes on the treble I swear to god only dogs should hear.

 

wg

That said, why on earth should anyone want to play an Extended Treble? :huh:

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I have to say that I've never quite understood why trebles were the popular ones; I think the lower notes are far better for accompanying singing, and they are much nicer to listen to. Some of the high notes on the treble I swear to god only dogs should hear.

 

wg

 

I think trebles were designed to play melodies on, rather than be used to accompany the human voice. The standard 48 key English treble has the same note range as the violin - from the G below middle C to the C three octaves above - and as such, is considered to have the most suitable range of notes for playing the melodies of popular tunes and folk tunes, especially English country dance and morris dance tunes, the EC having now become a very popular instrument at folk sessions.

 

Some of the high notes on a treble I swear to god only dogs should hear.

Listen to a Piccolo being played, which is even higher and you are hearing notes that only bats should here!

 

Chris

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I should also add that fully restored half decent 30 key anglos simply aren't available in the UK for £800 - Lachenal or otherwise.

 

I dunno, I think Chris himself was selling Lachenal 'mahogany' ended C/G anglos last year for around £800 and 'rosewood' ones for around £1500

 

I would agree with regard to the very lowest quality plain mahogany ended Lachenals with mediocre reeds and un-bushed buttons but they aren't what I would describe as half decent. The Wheatstone in question here finished at £2,601; a comparable Lachenal would indeed bring less but still the better part of £2,000 from what I've seen lately.

 

As for the metal ended Dickinson Wheatstone that's still to finish, but so far has a single bid of £3,000. I would imagine Chris is hoping for a tad more, we'll see.

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I see that the bass concertina didn't sell.

 

Chris

 

 

Bit of a funny one isn't it? You wouldn't have it as a main instrument, more as a luxury novelty, so it's not going to be a fast seller, I don't think.

 

On the other hand, even I looked at it and thought 'Bet that's fun'; but I wasn't ever going to be seriously tempted as I don't play Engrish anyway. I'm surprised someone didn't grab it though. Do you want to have a little wager with me that Chris gets offered a PX in the near future as some one 'weighs in' their relatively normal second instrument against it?

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