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I live on the north coast of Ireland & I'll be honest, I never travel around the English Festivals or Sessions, so I have absolutely no idea how common it is to see an English Concertina at a Session .... but I'm curious! ;)

 

I noticed that that there is one living Scot represented on the English International CDs.

 

Now through my recent thread I have found out that there are at least 42 active English Concertina players in Scotland.

 

I also notice that there are 13 living English players on the E. I. CDs, so would it be fair to assume that by multiplying that number by 43, we can guesstimate that there are probably around 546 active English Concertina players in England?

 

Would that figure be close ....... or miles out?

 

Are there regions of England where E. C.s are as rare as Hen's Teeth & other areas where you just get fed up tripping over them?

 

Cheers

Dick

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I live on the north coast of Ireland & I'll be honest, I never travel around the English Festivals or Sessions, so I have absolutely no idea how common it is to see an English Concertina at a Session .... but I'm curious! ;)

 

I noticed that that there is one living Scot represented on the English International CDs.

 

Now through my recent thread I have found out that there are at least 42 active English Concertina players in Scotland.

 

I also notice that there are 13 living English players on the E. I. CDs, so would it be fair to assume that by multiplying that number by 43, we can guesstimate that there are probably around 546 active English Concertina players in England?

 

Would that figure be close ....... or miles out?

 

Are there regions of England where E. C.s are as rare as Hen's Teeth & other areas where you just get fed up tripping over them?

 

Cheers

Dick

At first reading I thought you were pointing out to me the lack of Scottish Concertina players on EI, but I was wrong as Scotland and it's music is well represented. (admittedly most dead) but a total of 4players plus E Rutterford playing Scottish melodies

I go to a number of sessions and of recent sessions I have attended

The George London normally two, maximum I can remember is three on one night (two Anglo's,max three)

Lewes Sussex three English (5 Anglos)

Horsham Sussex no English (1 Anglo, Me)

Bradfield Session this year one English ( About ten Anglo's and two Jeffries Duets)

Charlwood Sussex one English ( two Anglos )

As for your equation English Es = 43 Scottish players alive X 11 English on EI is an interesting assumption, but it will be by more luck than judgement if your sums are correct

I hope nobody comes up with a similar one for the USA

Al :blink:

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At first reading I thought you were pointing out to me the lack of Scottish Concertina players on EI, but I was wrong as Scotland and it's music is well represented. (admittedly most dead) but a total of 4players plus E Rutterford playing Scottish melodies

I go to a number of sessions and of recent sessions I have attended

The George London normally two, maximum I can remember is three on one night (two Anglo's,max three)

Lewes Sussex three English (5 Anglos)

Horsham Sussex no English (1 Anglo, Me)

Bradfield Session this year one English ( About ten Anglo's and two Jeffries Duets)

Charlwood Sussex one English ( two Anglos )

As for your equation English Es = 43 Scottish players alive X 11 English on EI is an interesting assumption, but it will be by more luck than judgement if your sums are correct

I hope nobody comes up with a similar one for the USA

Al :blink:

 

"At first reading I thought you were pointing out to me the lack of Scottish Concertina players on EI."

 

NO! NO! .... ABSOLUTELY NOT Alan!

I have only great admiration for all the hard work that you must have put into such a massive & ambitious project.

 

I actually only bought my copy of the E. I. Box Set last week, but already I can see how valuable a resource this is going to be for me, as I learn how to play my Wheatstone.

 

As for my sums, they are, as I'm sure you already guessed, just tongue in cheek.

All I was really after was some idea, from members here, of how common the English Concertina is around the Folk Clubs, Sessions & Festivals of England, given that for everyone you see at an event, you must surely be able to add at least a couple more locally, certainly in England, I would have thought.

 

By the way, has anyone ever worked out how many English Concertinas have actually been made since the 1840s?

 

It's an interesting thought, isn't it ... I wonder where they all are now. ....... How many were just dumped or burned! :(

 

Cheers

Dick

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At first reading I thought you were pointing out to me the lack of Scottish Concertina players on EI, but I was wrong as Scotland and it's music is well represented. (admittedly most dead) but a total of 4players plus E Rutterford playing Scottish melodies

I go to a number of sessions and of recent sessions I have attended

The George London normally two, maximum I can remember is three on one night (two Anglo's,max three)

Lewes Sussex three English (5 Anglos)

Horsham Sussex no English (1 Anglo, Me)

Bradfield Session this year one English ( About ten Anglo's and two Jeffries Duets)

Charlwood Sussex one English ( two Anglos )

As for your equation English Es = 43 Scottish players alive X 11 English on EI is an interesting assumption, but it will be by more luck than judgement if your sums are correct

I hope nobody comes up with a similar one for the USA

Al :blink:

 

"At first reading I thought you were pointing out to me the lack of Scottish Concertina players on EI."

 

NO! NO! .... ABSOLUTELY NOT Alan!

I have only great admiration for all the hard work that you must have put into such a massive & ambitious project.

 

I actually only bought my copy of the E. I. Box Set last week, but already I can see how valuable a resource this is going to be for me, as I learn how to play my Wheatstone.

 

As for my sums, they are, as I'm sure you already guessed, just tongue in cheek.

All I was really after was some idea, from members here, of how common the English Concertina is around the Folk Clubs, Sessions & Festivals of England, given that for everyone you see at an event, you must surely be able to add at least a couple more locally, certainly in England, I would have thought.

 

By the way, has anyone ever worked out how many English Concertinas have actually been made since the 1840s?

 

It's an interesting thought, isn't it ... I wonder where they all are now. ....... How many were just dumped or burned! :(

 

Cheers

Dick

Thank goodness Dick and thanks for your comments.

You had me rushing for the booklet details and my calculator at the same time

Al

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I live on the north coast of Ireland & I'll be honest, I never travel around the English Festivals or Sessions, so I have absolutely no idea how common it is to see an English Concertina at a Session .... but I'm curious! ;)

 

I noticed that that there is one living Scot represented on the English International CDs.

 

Now through my recent thread I have found out that there are at least 42 active English Concertina players in Scotland.

 

I also notice that there are 13 living English players on the E. I. CDs, so would it be fair to assume that by multiplying that number by 43, we can guesstimate that there are probably around 546 active English Concertina players in England?

No, it would not.

As the saying goes, "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics." :ph34r:

 

An example might be the following (attributed to Ambrose Bierce, I believe): "If I had one foot in the middle of a burning fire and the other frozen into a block of ice, a statistician would say that on average, I was comfortable." :o :D

 

The biggest problem with your query is that your first sentence is -- in my own experience -- quite unrelated to your attempted "statistical" analysis. There are a great many English concertinas that are played regularly, but which have never been to a "session". (Duets and anglos, too, though perhaps a smaller percentage of the latter.) Do you know how many of the 42 Scottish EC players you discovered regularly attend -- or have ever attended -- "sessions"?

 

The second problem is that your computation implies that you expect that ratios should be expected to be everywhere the same, even though your following question tells me that you consider it at least possible that they aren't. And they definitely aren't.

 

Are there regions of England where E. C.s are as rare as Hen's Teeth & other areas where you just get fed up tripping over them?

"Get fed up tripping over them" would be an exaggeration, but there are certainly individual regions, towns, and even homes which have a concentration much higher than "average", while there are others where none will be found. (The same can also be said of anglos.)

My own personal "guesstimate" is that the number 546 is
far
too low.

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Are there regions of England where E. C.s are as rare as Hen's Teeth & other areas where you just get fed up tripping over them?

 

I live in Middlesbrough and go to folk clubs and sessions locally as well as to the Caedmon Folk classes at the Sage in Gateshead.

 

I have a fair number of concertina playing friends and all of them, bar one play EC and the odd one out plays a Duet. I am the other odd one out with an Anglo. I have come across just one other Anglo player locally who sometimes turns up at local events. Similarly with guest artists at the folk clubs I go to. Mostly if the guest plays concertina, again, it is EC. The exceptions I can almost count on the fingers of one hand (four Anglos and two Duets)

 

Of course, living in NE England, you could argue for an Alistair Anderson factor and I am sure he has been big influence. Certainly both the Folkworks Caedmon classes and Folkworks summer school run EC and not Anglo classes.

 

I have a friend who regularly goes to both Swaledale and Witney. I shall have to ask him what the balance of numbers is there.

 

My conclusion is that both EC and Anglo are probably unevenly distributed across England.

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Are there regions of England where E. C.s are as rare as Hen's Teeth & other areas where you just get fed up tripping over them?

 

I live in Middlesbrough and go to folk clubs and sessions locally as well as to the Caedmon Folk classes at the Sage in Gateshead.

 

I have a fair number of concertina playing friends and all of them, bar one play EC and the odd one out plays a Duet. I am the other odd one out with an Anglo. I have come across just one other Anglo player locally who sometimes turns up at local events. Similarly with guest artists at the folk clubs I go to. Mostly if the guest plays concertina, again, it is EC. The exceptions I can almost count on the fingers of one hand (four Anglos and two Duets)

 

Of course, living in NE England, you could argue for an Alistair Anderson factor and I am sure he has been big influence. Certainly both the Folkworks Caedmon classes and Folkworks summer school run EC and not Anglo classes.

 

I have a friend who regularly goes to both Swaledale and Witney. I shall have to ask him what the balance of numbers is there.

 

My conclusion is that both EC and Anglo are probably unevenly distributed across England.

 

I guess that there are a fair number of Concertina enthusiasts who play entirely for their own pleasure in privacy and have no particular desire to attend 'Sessions' or join 'Groups' ......or become statistically accountable !

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Are there regions of England where E. C.s are as rare as Hen's Teeth & other areas where you just get fed up tripping over them?

 

I live in Middlesbrough and go to folk clubs and sessions locally as well as to the Caedmon Folk classes at the Sage in Gateshead.

 

I have a fair number of concertina playing friends and all of them, bar one play EC and the odd one out plays a Duet. I am the other odd one out with an Anglo. I have come across just one other Anglo player locally who sometimes turns up at local events. Similarly with guest artists at the folk clubs I go to. Mostly if the guest plays concertina, again, it is EC. The exceptions I can almost count on the fingers of one hand (four Anglos and two Duets)

 

Of course, living in NE England, you could argue for an Alistair Anderson factor and I am sure he has been big influence. Certainly both the Folkworks Caedmon classes and Folkworks summer school run EC and not Anglo classes.

 

I have a friend who regularly goes to both Swaledale and Witney. I shall have to ask him what the balance of numbers is there.

 

My conclusion is that both EC and Anglo are probably unevenly distributed across England.

 

I guess that there are a fair number of Concertina enthusiasts who play entirely for their own pleasure in privacy and have no particular desire to attend 'Sessions' or join 'Groups' ......or become statistically accountable !

 

Yeah Rod, I'm sure you are right, but I guess that's true for all folk instruments, not just Concertinas ... or do you think Concertina players are by nature more of a shy breed? ;)

 

Cheers

Dick

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Are there regions of England where E. C.s are as rare as Hen's Teeth & other areas where you just get fed up tripping over them?

 

I live in Middlesbrough and go to folk clubs and sessions locally as well as to the Caedmon Folk classes at the Sage in Gateshead.

 

I have a fair number of concertina playing friends and all of them, bar one play EC and the odd one out plays a Duet. I am the other odd one out with an Anglo. I have come across just one other Anglo player locally who sometimes turns up at local events. Similarly with guest artists at the folk clubs I go to. Mostly if the guest plays concertina, again, it is EC. The exceptions I can almost count on the fingers of one hand (four Anglos and two Duets)

 

Of course, living in NE England, you could argue for an Alistair Anderson factor and I am sure he has been big influence. Certainly both the Folkworks Caedmon classes and Folkworks summer school run EC and not Anglo classes.

 

I have a friend who regularly goes to both Swaledale and Witney. I shall have to ask him what the balance of numbers is there.

 

My conclusion is that both EC and Anglo are probably unevenly distributed across England.

 

I guess that there are a fair number of Concertina enthusiasts who play entirely for their own pleasure in privacy and have no particular desire to attend 'Sessions' or join 'Groups' ......or become statistically accountable !

 

Yeah Rod, I'm sure you are right, but I guess that's true for all folk instruments, not just Concertinas ... or do you think Concertina players are by nature more of a shy breed? ;)

 

Cheers

Dick

 

No idea Dick. Perhaps I'm the only one ! Rod

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Are there regions of England where E. C.s are as rare as Hen's Teeth & other areas where you just get fed up tripping over them?

 

I live in Middlesbrough and go to folk clubs and sessions locally as well as to the Caedmon Folk classes at the Sage in Gateshead.

 

I have a fair number of concertina playing friends and all of them, bar one play EC and the odd one out plays a Duet. I am the other odd one out with an Anglo. I have come across just one other Anglo player locally who sometimes turns up at local events. Similarly with guest artists at the folk clubs I go to. Mostly if the guest plays concertina, again, it is EC. The exceptions I can almost count on the fingers of one hand (four Anglos and two Duets)

 

Of course, living in NE England, you could argue for an Alistair Anderson factor and I am sure he has been big influence. Certainly both the Folkworks Caedmon classes and Folkworks summer school run EC and not Anglo classes.

 

I have a friend who regularly goes to both Swaledale and Witney. I shall have to ask him what the balance of numbers is there.

 

My conclusion is that both EC and Anglo are probably unevenly distributed across England.

 

I guess that there are a fair number of Concertina enthusiasts who play entirely for their own pleasure in privacy and have no particular desire to attend 'Sessions' or join 'Groups' ......or become statistically accountable !

 

Yeah Rod, I'm sure you are right, but I guess that's true for all folk instruments, not just Concertinas ... or do you think Concertina players are by nature more of a shy breed? ;)

 

Cheers

Dick

You won't see my duets down folk clubs very often, and that's nothing to do with shyness. I just don't play folk. Use your squeezebox for folk music and welcome, but don't for a moment think that's all they are good for, or that you'll be able to count them through folk events.

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....... It's an interesting thought, isn't it ... I wonder where they all are now. ....... How many were just dumped or burned! :( ...

 

Cheers

Dick

 

Eh Up Dick,

 

Glad to say I cannot recall personally ever having burned a concertina, though my playing has left scorch marks on a few B)

 

I do look back with embarrassment on the wanton destruction I took part in in the sixties. At most village fetes around Sussex, there would be a competition for the adults to smash up pianos, by any means, into lumps small enough to pass through a toilet seat.

The accompanying event for juniors was to smash up a concertina into pieces that would fit through an inch & a quarter napkin ring. I took part in this event more times than I now care to remember, and always recall just how tough Jeffries reed pans were to break up! ..... by contrast, Edeophones were a cinch :lol:

 

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa :ph34r:

 

Regards

 

Dave P

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Are there regions of England where E. C.s are as rare as Hen's Teeth & other areas where you just get fed up tripping over them?

 

I live in Middlesbrough and go to folk clubs and sessions locally as well as to the Caedmon Folk classes at the Sage in Gateshead.

 

I have a fair number of concertina playing friends and all of them, bar one play EC and the odd one out plays a Duet. I am the other odd one out with an Anglo. I have come across just one other Anglo player locally who sometimes turns up at local events. Similarly with guest artists at the folk clubs I go to. Mostly if the guest plays concertina, again, it is EC. The exceptions I can almost count on the fingers of one hand (four Anglos and two Duets)

 

Of course, living in NE England, you could argue for an Alistair Anderson factor and I am sure he has been big influence. Certainly both the Folkworks Caedmon classes and Folkworks summer school run EC and not Anglo classes.

 

I have a friend who regularly goes to both Swaledale and Witney. I shall have to ask him what the balance of numbers is there.

 

 

My conclusion is that both EC and Anglo are probably unevenly distributed across England.

 

I guess that there are a fair number of Concertina enthusiasts who play entirely for their own pleasure in privacy and have no particular desire to attend 'Sessions' or join 'Groups' ......or become statistically accountable !

 

Yeah Rod, I'm sure you are right, but I guess that's true for all folk instruments, not just Concertinas ... or do you think Concertina players are by nature more of a shy breed? ;)

 

Cheers

Dick

You won't see my duets down folk clubs very often, and that's nothing to do with shyness. I just don't play folk. Use your squeezebox for folk music and welcome, but don't for a moment think that's all they are good for, or that you'll be able to count them through folk events.

 

Exactly Dirge. The Concertina is potentially far too versatile an instrument to be merely labeled ( as it so often is ) 'A Folk Instrument'. It deserves greater respect.

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The Concertina is potentially far too versatile an instrument to be merely labeled ( as it so often is ) 'A Folk Instrument'. It deserves greater respect.

Agreed, but on the other hand, "folk" deserves greater respect than it often gets.

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....... It's an interesting thought, isn't it ... I wonder where they all are now. ....... How many were just dumped or burned! :( ...

 

Cheers

Dick

 

Eh Up Dick,

 

Glad to say I cannot recall personally ever having burned a concertina, though my playing has left scorch marks on a few B)

 

I do look back with embarrassment on the wanton destruction I took part in in the sixties. At most village fetes around Sussex, there would be a competition for the adults to smash up pianos, by any means, into lumps small enough to pass through a toilet seat.

The accompanying event for juniors was to smash up a concertina into pieces that would fit through an inch & a quarter napkin ring. I took part in this event more times than I now care to remember, and always recall just how tough Jeffries reed pans were to break up! ..... by contrast, Edeophones were a cinch :lol:

 

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa :ph34r:

 

Regards

 

Dave P

 

Any film?

 

Alan

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The Concertina is potentially far too versatile an instrument to be merely labeled ( as it so often is ) 'A Folk Instrument'. It deserves greater respect.

Agreed, but on the other hand, "folk" deserves greater respect than it often gets.

 

Hmmm sometimes. Sometimes less...

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At my local session in Cheshire (which may be fairly heavily Irish or fairly heavily English, depending on who turns up) there are at least 5 regular EC players, although it is unusual for them to all turn up together. I'm the only Anglo.

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(Much snippage, so apologies if the attributions have gone bonkers)

 

Are there regions of England where E. C.s are as rare as Hen's Teeth & other areas where you just get fed up tripping over them?

"Get fed up tripping over them" would be an exaggeration, but there are certainly individual regions, towns, and even homes which have a concentration much higher than "average", while there are others where none will be found. (The same can also be said of anglos.)

My own personal "guesstimate" is that the number 546 is
far
too low.

 

More than once I, or rather my Wheatstone, has been one of 5 or 6 ECs in the session at the Crown in Worthington a few miles north of Bolton. I would be astonished to learn that that one session would represent 1/100th of all the active concertinas in England, especially as I personally know at least 5 or 6 other EC players as well. Am I really on first-name terms with 1/50th of the EC population of England? Doesn't sound likely to me :)

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a dig, I'm thinking out the likelyhood of the maths.

 

Anyone know if the ICA have any figures on geographic spread correlated with concertina type? That would be a partial estimate (I for one am not a member of the ICA) but it would perhaps get us slightly closer to an estimate ...

 

And if anyone really is fed up with tripping over a decent loud steel-ended 56-key EC (not accordeon reeded), I'll happily move it out of your way at no charge whatsoever and give it a very good home :)

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At my local session in Cheshire (which may be fairly heavily Irish or fairly heavily English, depending on who turns up) there are at least 5 regular EC players, although it is unusual for them to all turn up together. I'm the only Anglo.

 

Been there .. though probably not regularly enough to be counted as regular :-)

There are couple of sessions that I do go to regularly. at one small one, I know of around 4 EC players (including myself), though rarely more than 2 at a time.

The other session is quite large, and a hot bed of ECs with rarely less than 3 and if we all turned up at once, maybe as many as 6 (plus a lone anglo player)

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