Playing The More Difficult Scales

[bellowbelle]

I'm wondering if anyone else 'figures' scale-playing the way I do, on the English concertina or anything else.

 

I've been working with Allan Atlas' 'Contemplating The Concertina' book every now and then. I've been trying to make the 'odd' scales become easier to breeze through. So, that's Ab major, B, F# and C#...I think (don't have the book in front of me).

 

Anway....

 

while I find it interesting to see the comparison of how the Victorians played these certain scales and how Allan Atlas prefers to play them, I find that, in order to 'breeze' through them, when I allow myself to do things 'my way,' I don't do either.

 

I find it easiest to play a scale when I'm COUNTING it. I find the first note, Ab or whatever, then count 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8, etc., taking note of the 1/2-step between the 3 & 4 and the 7 & 8.

 

Now, exactly how my fingers know more of where to go, I don't know. But, they do. I still am not totally breezing, but...getting there.

[Sharron]

Can't help with this one as I don't play scales

 

I can't be bothered as I just want to play the tunes. I did try once to make myself play scales on box and fiddle but to no avail. Then when the anglo concertina came along I found that I could find no point to playing scales as it depended on the tune, etc. as to which way the scale would be played.

 

Sorry, I would rather just play the tune fluently and yes I do know playing scales is supposed to make playing easier and more fluent. I just would rather spend the extra time playing the tunes instead.

 

Too impatient by far for scales and anything else that gets in the way of playing the tunes.

 

Now, ornamentation.........that's different

 

Sharron

[JimLucas]

Now, ornamentation.........that's different

You wear an earring, maybe?

[Sharron]

From what I see nowadays, an earring seems to be worn by the male of the species, Jim.

 

Do you perhaps own one?

 

 

Sharron

[JimLucas]

From what I see nowadays, an earring seems to be worn by the male of the species, Jim.

 

Do you perhaps own one?

No. Slaves are too high maintenance for me.

[bellowbelle]

Too impatient by far for scales and anything else that gets in the way of playing the tunes.

 

Now, ornamentation.........that's different

 

Sharron

'Me too, same,' basically...on this one! And I know there are arguments pro and con re the value of bothering to play scales (at least for other instruments, i.e., piano). In fact, I've got a scrapbook of early publications from Etude magazine, etc., on that and other subjects.

 

The point being made by Allan Atlas in the section of the book I was looking at was about 'scales that untie knots.' While most of the scales (on the English, anyway...don't know about the others) sort of flow along and there's no real need to deliberate over them, there are the 4 or so that can get 'knotted' or whatever. They require decisions about what fingers to use, and so on. (In other words, the point wasn't to memorize scales, simply.)

 

Anyway...I just eventually discovered that I 'count' while I'm playing scales and maybe I play...spatially? You know, more like I know the SPACE where the next note falls on the EC keyboard.

 

I am trying to get to know the keyboard(s) on the EC better...not really strictly playing scales.

 

I'm all for tunes over scales....only building a so-so stack of memorized tunes, though, for now...I kinda prefer to write my own songs.

 

Learning to share the air with my hands has been interesting....before, my voice was all in charge of that. Now, I'm singing but must let the bellows and hands have some of the air...it's weird!

[bellowbelle]

No. Slaves are too high maintenance for me.

You mean, the rest of 'em have been getting paid? Wow....

[Helen]

Hey Wendy,

 

My hammer dulcimer workshop leader, who was a music teacher until she retired, said she did not teach scales, you got all that in a good tune. She taught difficult and varied tunes instead.

 

That said, now that I am taking piano accordion lessons, along with tunes, the teacher teaches drills and scales for both hands and chord inversions. I have to admit that although I hate doing them, I am really learning my way around the accordion. And I am getting theory solidly implanted in my head.

 

I would not want to do just scales and inversions. Yech. I do all that stuff so I can get to the REAL stuff, the tunes. But it sure has moved me forward in my playing.

 

So, I think you should go for it. Not only doing scales etc., (throwing in a lot of fun tunes too),but diligently adding it (scales) in.

 

Helen

[bellowbelle]

So, I think you should go for it. Not only doing scales etc., (throwing in a lot of fun tunes too),but diligently adding it (scales) in.

 

Helen

Just got a really nice songbook yesterday at the Button Box -- over 300 favorists in it. Mel Bay's Irish Session Tune Book (or, something like that...sorry, the book is not with me).

 

I've copied several off the internet, but, once again, I marvel at the wonder of the modern, organized/alphabetized BOOK! Save me lots of printing and sorting, and losing papers, and sorting again, etc..

[Ken_Coles]

Just got a really nice songbook yesterday at the Button Box

 

These coincidences are getting to be too much! I was in there between 4:30 and 5:00. When were you there, Wendy? Went to the Contra Dance after that -- good time.

 

Ken (practicing my scales on English - token on-topic comment!)

[Helen]

Oh, Wendy, I just love books. I think I got that one too from the Button Box.

 

It's okay, Ken, you can go off topic with Wendy as it was Wendy's thread. So she can take it, and you, wherever she wants. Er, well as long as you get back in time for school

 

Helen

[bellowbelle]

When were you there, Wendy?

Not off-topic at all...I appreciate the mental test, to see if I can recall something. (Need that, to learn scales, for sure.)

 

Um...it was morning. I was there before I picked up my daughter from her school at about 1:30, so...must have been about noontime.

 

I don't know if I have enough energy for a contra dance. If I ever 'recover' from life, maybe I'll go to one!

[RustyBits]

I can't be bothered as I just want to play the tunes

t I usually work out tunes in at least 2 keys, so that is sort of like practicing scales, isn't it??

[Helen]

Hey Lisa,

 

I think that is a tremendous workout. Maybe I'll try that on the pa.

 

Great idea.

 

Helen

[allan atlas]

BELLOWBELLE hit it on the head. In and of itself, there is no great virtue in being able to play this or that scale merely for its own sake. Rather, the ability to do so generally translates into being able to play other things, tunes included (since so many of them have scale passages in them). And the reason for mastering those scales that "untie the knots" is that it gets one away from the mechanical alternation of left, right, left, right, etc. And yes, it forces one to make decisions in connection with the enharmonic notes. The object is to be able to play as fluently in F-sharp major as it is in F major, in A-flat major as it is in A major, and then on to music that is highly chromatic or not tonal at all................Allan

[JimLucas]

...and then on to music that is ... not tonal at all...

But Allan, that's how it sounded before I learned the scales.

[bellowbelle]

Just another thought to tack on, here...

 

Playing the scales on the concertina (English, at least) is different from practicing them on a piano keyboard, since you're not simply moving up a straight line in sequences.

 

The 'square' or 'cube' of the EC is more of a challenge, I think, at least if you're more used to thinking in 'line.'

 

So...less redundancy, I think, to work out the scales on the concertina.

 

It does eventually start to make sense, geometrically. Then, there's more freedom to move around, etc., as Allan points out.

 

(I've had some fun 'cubing' aspects of music theory, so far, anyway...i.e., my 'music snake,' um...which goes on/off my websites, but, it's lurking somewhere so maybe I'll find and post him.)

[JimLucas]

Playing the scales on the concertina (English, at least) is different from practicing them on a piano keyboard,...

Very true. (Also for the anglo, but that's a different difference.)

 

...since you're not simply moving up a straight line in sequences.

But on the piano you are moving up a straight line. That's what makes it so different from the oh-so-sensible concertina. Piano feels like I need a bicycle to get to the next octave!

 

The 'square' or 'cube' of the EC is more of a challenge, I think, at least if you're more used to thinking in 'line'.

Ah, but I'm not. The piano is the challenge for me.

 

So many things depend on personal perspective and prior experience. (Did you know that the Chinese -- especially adults -- find English difficult to learn? )

 

I very much recommend the chapter "It's a Simple as One, Two, Three..." in Richard P. Feynman's book "What Do You Care What Other People Think?"

 

It seems I mislaid Allan's book before more than starting it. I really need to find it. I'm curious as to what he says about these "More Difficult" scales and I want to see how it compares with my own observations. I do bristle a bit at their being called "more difficult", though. They're somewhat different from the majority, but otherwise quite easy, in my opinion.