Fingers Crossed For Sea Shanties

[Ishtar]

By accident (or was it? ) I came across a group who do sea shanties. They rehearse every Friday night in a little town about 20km from here, and we went along last night to see what they were all about.

 

And they were lovely! So friendly and welcoming, and very enthusiastic. They already have a diato, but after all were very interested in the EC - c'est chromatique, mais alors!!

 

At the break, they asked what I could do, so I got out my best set of fingers and played The Rights of Man.

 

At the moment I don't know any of the French songs at all, so lots to learn. Also must learn to translate doh-re-mi without counting on my fingers.

 

So, fingers crossed, touch wood etc, that I'm up to this little challenge. It would be nice, I think, to have a place, however small, in the wonderful world of music.

[PeterT]

So, fingers crossed, touch wood etc, that I'm up to this little challenge. It would be nice, I think, to have a place, however small, in the wonderful world of music.

Good luck with your challenge!

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Rhomylly]

I love shanties! Lucky you!

[Anglo-Irishman]

By accident (or was it? ) I came across a group who do sea shanties. ...

So, fingers crossed, touch wood etc, that I'm up to this little challenge. It would be nice, I think, to have a place, however small, in the wonderful world of music.

 

Ishtar,

Lucky you! Wish there was a shanty group near me, but we're just too far from the sea, down here in the German south-west

 

What I like about English shanties is that they're the only kind of folk-song that you don't have to perform in a particular regional dialect. British sailors came from all over the British Isles, and crews of large sailing ships were often cosmopolitan, so there's no "authentic" accent.

Here in Germany, shanties are either English or north German (Plattdeutsch) dialect, because only the north has a coastline. How is it in France?

 

Cheers,

John

[Dave Rogers]

What I like about English shanties is that they're the only kind of folk-song that you don't have to perform in a particular regional dialect.

 

Eh? The repertoire of many singers includes traditional (non-shanty) songs originating from counties as far apart as Somerset, Norfolk and Yorkshire. I can't think of anyone who sings in a variety of dialects to reflect that. Not that many pure dialect words made it past the Victorian and Edwardian collectors in the first place. I assume that you do mean "dialect" rather than "accent"? Southerners sometimes have to make concessions for the sake of the rhyme ("lass" and "grass", for example), but nothing sounds worse than somebody aping a regional accent that isn't their own.

[Anglo-Irishman]

What I like about English shanties is that they're the only kind of folk-song that you don't have to perform in a particular regional dialect.

 

I assume that you do mean "dialect" rather than "accent"? Southerners sometimes have to make concessions for the sake of the rhyme ("lass" and "grass", for example), but nothing sounds worse than somebody aping a regional accent that isn't their own.

 

Dave,

Well, actually I did mean "accent", but in the sense of that "regionally differentiated diction" which is in most cases all that remains of the true dialects.

Englishmen may be pretty tolerant among themselves, but when I, as an Ulsterman, hear a line like "Down a boreen green came a sweet colleen (or cailín, even)" sung with an English or American accent - well, I do squirm a little. I'll grant you, "aping a regional accent that isn't their own" is worse, but only marginally.

 

I lived long enough among the Scots to react similarly to Sassenach attempts to sing "Bonne Chairlie's noo awa'". And then there's Robert Burns, whose songs have penetrated the classical domain. And they are in dialect (at least - some would say, in a language of it's own).

 

I see it this way: if the ITM bunch feel free to dictate that you must play a particular type of concertina, and do your cuts and rolls in a particular way, then I as a singer can express the wish that singers wanting to sing Irish songs should learn a bit of elocution. (Singers ought to do that anyway, even in their native language or dialect. You can't transfer the elocution of classical music to folk songs ).

 

And, apart from the vocabulary used, many folk songs contain geographical or political allusions that make them regional, and practically demand a regional accent.

 

All these considerations - whether you take them seriously or not - are superfluous when you're sitting on the imaginary fore-bitt of an imaginary clipper singing nautical folk songs to your imagined motley bunch of shipmates.

 

That's all!

 

Cheers,

John

[Dave Rogers]

All these considerations - whether you take them seriously or not - are superfluous when you're sitting on the imaginary fore-bitt of an imaginary clipper singing nautical folk songs to your imagined motley bunch of shipmates.

 

Yes, I certainly take your point about the shanties, but I've heard too many floorsingers in folk clubs trying to sound like Mike Waterson to agree about singing regional songs in the appropriate accents! Even Martin Carthy (who sounds like himself, whatever the origin of the song he is singing) used to adopt what he now refers to as his "all-purpose rural accent" on his early recordings.

 

You're quite right about singers mangling songs in Lalland Scots (for example). I'm not sure that Englishmen are *that* much more tolerant about how their songs are sung, but I'm reasonably certain that most wouldn't appreciate someone trying to sing one of "their" songs in faux Geordie, Mummerset, or even "Mockney" (Fake Cockney).

 

:-)

Edited October 13, 2008 by Dave Rogers

[pickinduck]

Hope it all works out.

Sounds like lots of fun

[HoldThePhone]

sounds awesome, have fun!

[Ishtar]

Rightio, I'm back to update you with my little bit of knowledge of French sea shanties, whether you want it or not.

 

John, you asked how they compare to German ones. Generally speaking, folk music and chants de marins mean BRITTANY to French people, unless they have a specific local interest of their own.

 

And certainly, the songs we've worked on so far are Breton songs, for example "Les Filles de Lorient" and "Les Trois Matelots du Port de Brest".

 

You can hear a sample of "Les Filles de Lorient" here http://bmarcore.club.fr/marins/index-03.html Click on either the Marc Ogeret or the last MP3 samples, that's the version we sing.

 

And here's "Trois Matelots du Port de Brest" played by Alain Pennec (anything ending in -ec is Breton, btw!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o52LFcTlDXM...feature=related

 

A new one we did last night was "Les Bateliers", which unfortunately I can't find anywhere for you. It's a song to accompany the Languedoc jousting, down here in the south, places like Sète and Agde. The words are here, but not a sample of the song, although you can listen to other songs, to get a flavour of the area. The Languedoc hautbois is a little bit strident, but it's very festive, with them all marching to the boats for the jousting. http://lesmourresdeporc.midiblogs.com/ecouter_les_mourres_/

 

Hey, here's a little vid of the jousting. Sorry, no concertinas, but it's fun!

 

Back to business, trying to work out a 2nd voice for a song I don't know. Listen, there's a lot of you out there with too much talent, can you send me some, please? I'll exchange it for some unbounded enthusiasm and dog-like devotion.