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A Question For Possible Buyers.


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I am currently in the final stages of tooling up for doing repairs on a wide range of free reed instruments and was wondering if there was the interest in a Modern Maccan Duet hybird reed instrument? it is just a question. anyone interested please chime in. In is to see if there is the interest or not only.

 

Michael.

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Well, I know one virtuoso over here who had Colin Dipper make him a Maccann. It does happen, though no doubt a small market (like everything concertina-related).

 

I wonder if Bob Tedrow, who does custom versions of his hybrids, has ever done a Maccann?

 

Ken

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I am currently in the final stages of tooling up for doing repairs on a wide range of free reed instruments and was wondering if there was the interest in a Modern Maccan Duet hybird reed instrument? it is just a question. anyone interested please chime in. In is to see if there is the interest or not only.

 

Michael.

 

Sorry Michael, what are you proposing?

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I am currently in the final stages of tooling up for doing repairs on a wide range of free reed instruments and was wondering if there was the interest in a Modern Maccan Duet hybird reed instrument? it is just a question. anyone interested please chime in. In is to see if there is the interest or not only.

 

Michael.

 

Sorry Michael, what are you proposing?

 

Well depending on interest and how well I can pack the reeds while keeping the whole unit around 7" across (bigger makes my hands hurt in some instruments that I have played of the size (interesting though that the Chemnitzer does cause the same hand pain, hmm... got to think on that one).

 

What the instrument would be is:

 

Maccann duet done with "a mano" or typo a mano reeds. Hand made single carded bellows. Looking at wood types. Want to go with something relatively light but will see that ages and won't cost the earth to get. Unfortunately that is a tall order but I have a few woods that I am looking at and going to be experimenting with. High grade plastic buttons (possibly metal sleeves over them). The number of buttons will be determined by how well I can pack the reed in. I know that I can do up to 46 button one without too much trouble. After that it gets interesting and have to try out sizes to get things just right (not too small for big hands or too big for those of us with small hands). The ends would be hand pierced and sawn, unless I can get reasonable rates and keep the quality I want in the finished item. high grade polish with either a French polish finish or a high grade clear sealant (experimenting with those as well, Loved having had a grandfather that was a Master woodworker). Price is something that is still being worked on as don't want to price myself out of any buyers but like to have the family eat as well. Luckily this will NOT a main income item so we will see how things go.

 

I hope this answers your questions and ask any more that you have. Thou as you can see my posting is getting a bit slower as life is taking a bit of an up turn. Will try to look in at least every other day.

 

Michael

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Update on design structure for anyone interested.

 

Having done a good bit more research (life is a learning curve the more you want out of it the steeper it is) I have come to the conclusion that moving up to either an 8" hexagon equal measured from edge to edge or an an unequal hexagon of similar to the 8" with the top and bottom given two to three reed groupings worth more space. I have also moved up to a minimum of 48 buttons preferring to go around 52 to 56 buttons (working out how to fit this all in, but it is coming together as long as i stick to some basic ground rules on reed placement.

 

Anyone find this of interest? I know that there is a lot of interest in the Hayden system, but I also know that Richard and Wim are pretty much on the way to covering those for present (who knows if the demand grows any bigger, I might try myself with either Accordion or concertina reeds). So anyone interested or having comment please feel free to speak, I don't have a thin skin most of the time.

 

Michael

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I'm not sure what the market niche is here.

 

Is there a sufficient shortage of restored vintage Macann Duets to make this viable? (My wife joked that the moment she picked up her Macann she was automatically in the "top 100 American players").

 

--Dave

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I know that there is a lot of interest in the Hayden system, but I also know that Richard and Wim are pretty much on the way to covering those for present (who knows if the demand grows any bigger, I might try myself with either Accordion or concertina reeds). So anyone interested or having comment please feel free to speak, I don't have a thin skin most of the time.

There's a good reason why Wakker, Tedrow, and Marcus have designed and produced Haydens (with accordion reeds in the latter two cases), and Morse has an ambition to make Haydens, rather than Maccanns and Cranes. It is because:

- people want them

- and there isn't a heavy overhang of vintage instruments available at modest price for high quality

- Dippers and Wheatstones are as rare as rocking-horse dung.

 

Of course some of the above also make English concertinas, where vintage prices are rather lower than for Anglos. But for a given quality of vintage instrument, Maccanns are the cheapest of all. Cranes are harder to come by, but with good 48-key Cranes fetching around UKP 1000, these are not super expensive instruments.

 

I can understand your desire not to compete with all these makers putting their Haydens on the market, but I expect you will find that their output is tiny and they have waiting lists. Marcus does not advertise that he makes Haydens and has closed the waiting list. Making Cranes would, on the face of it, seem to be more rentable than Maccanns.

 

On the other hand, there is a gap in the Maccann market. The 46-key instrument has annoying short-comings. But currently the only way to avoid them is to get a 57-key, which is probably rather larger/heavier than they would like to play, and also costs about twice the price of a 46-key. (Although 57-key Maccanns are generally Wheatstones, and therefore arguably a bargain at the price.) So what quite a lot of Maccann players would like would be an instrument:

- of probably around about 48 to 50 keys

- which goes down to middle C on the RH side (like a Crane)

- doesn't have the annoying gaps in the LH keyboard (especially the low D) and

- is either rather smaller and lighter than a standard 57-key (which is otherwise their only method of getting the above), or else rather cheaper, and preferably both.

 

If you can make such an instrument, make it either lighter and smaller, or cheaper (and certainly no more expensive than) a vintage 57-key, preferably both, you might just have some willing takers.

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I know that there is a lot of interest in the Hayden system, but I also know that Richard and Wim are pretty much on the way to covering those for present (who knows if the demand grows any bigger, I might try myself with either Accordion or concertina reeds). So anyone interested or having comment please feel free to speak, I don't have a thin skin most of the time.

There's a good reason why Wakker, Tedrow, and Marcus have designed and produced Haydens (with accordion reeds in the latter two cases), and Morse has an ambition to make Haydens, rather than Maccanns and Cranes. It is because:

- people want them

- and there isn't a heavy overhang of vintage instruments available at modest price for high quality

- Dippers and Wheatstones are as rare as rocking-horse dung.

 

Of course some of the above also make English concertinas, where vintage prices are rather lower than for Anglos. But for a given quality of vintage instrument, Maccanns are the cheapest of all. Cranes are harder to come by, but with good 48-key Cranes fetching around UKP 1000, these are not super expensive instruments.

 

I can understand your desire not to compete with all these makers putting their Haydens on the market, but I expect you will find that their output is tiny and they have waiting lists. Marcus does not advertise that he makes Haydens and has closed the waiting list. Making Cranes would, on the face of it, seem to be more rentable than Maccanns.

 

On the other hand, there is a gap in the Maccann market. The 46-key instrument has annoying short-comings. But currently the only way to avoid them is to get a 57-key, which is probably rather larger/heavier than they would like to play, and also costs about twice the price of a 46-key. (Although 57-key Maccanns are generally Wheatstones, and therefore arguably a bargain at the price.) So what quite a lot of Maccann players would like would be an instrument:

- of probably around about 48 to 50 keys

- which goes down to middle C on the RH side (like a Crane)

- doesn't have the annoying gaps in the LH keyboard (especially the low D) and

- is either rather smaller and lighter than a standard 57-key (which is otherwise their only method of getting the above), or else rather cheaper, and preferably both.

 

If you can make such an instrument, make it either lighter and smaller, or cheaper (and certainly no more expensive than) a vintage 57-key, preferably both, you might just have some willing takers.

 

 

Thank you and am working in that direction. looking at using a design structure similar to the Stagi system and seeing if that can work (referring to Stagi's english models). Wish me luck and hope that things go well.

 

Michael

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Thank you and am working in that direction. looking at using a design structure similar to the Stagi system and seeing if that can work (referring to Stagi's english models). Wish me luck and hope that things go well.

Please don't copy that action mechanism - it's very uneven and degrades quickly. And those flat-on reedbanks-over-reedbanks are a good idea but are poorly balanced. The inboard reeds have a noticeably different volume and tonal color than the outer ones. You can make them closer but you have to put some R&D into the chamber sizes, access path sizes and padhole sizes. The Stagi's are too small. Oh yeah - and *don't* use foam reed gaskets as it robs a significant amount of volume and makes the reeds difficult to tune. And.... :wacko:

 

Actually the only thing interesting about that English is flat-on layered reedbanks. For everything else I suggest that you go along the traditional route like the other hybrid makers do.

 

-- Rich --

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  • 2 weeks later...
Thank you and am working in that direction. looking at using a design structure similar to the Stagi system and seeing if that can work (referring to Stagi's english models). Wish me luck and hope that things go well.

Please don't copy that action mechanism - it's very uneven and degrades quickly. And those flat-on reedbanks-over-reedbanks are a good idea but are poorly balanced. The inboard reeds have a noticeably different volume and tonal color than the outer ones. You can make them closer but you have to put some R&D into the chamber sizes, access path sizes and padhole sizes. The Stagi's are too small. Oh yeah - and *don't* use foam reed gaskets as it robs a significant amount of volume and makes the reeds difficult to tune. And.... :wacko:

 

Actually the only thing interesting about that English is flat-on layered reedbanks. For everything else I suggest that you go along the traditional route like the other hybrid makers do.

 

-- Rich --

 

Richard the flat on reed banks are the only part that I find of much interest and you right about needing to increase the bore of the flues and the depth of the reed chambers. Both of which I am working with at the moment as I have some interest from a few parties in an English made that way but with better mechanism and better seal. There is some good parts to a Stagi but there is also some real stinker and cheap shortcuts (the washers under the bolts and the type of bolt heads just to name a few). Upgrading the one I have got so the wife will be a bit more happy wit it's responsiveness and voicing (another project on the list :unsure: ).

 

Michael

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