Singing And Accompaniment In Same Octave?

[SqeezerGeezer]

I concur with comments about Mark's rendition of She Moved Through the Fair. Beautifully done. Are there any

good books that cover vocal accompaniment on concertina (either English or Anglo), and if so, which? The use

of drone accompaniment to me sounds very nice with Early (ie Renaissance period) music.

[Mark Evans]

but is it possible to do this for folk repertoire without sounding like a poor imitation of Peter Pears doing a Britten arrangement in a drawing room?

 

Well yes it should be. Nothing wrong with Peter Pears though. As I learned and performed Albert Herring, the Turn of the Screw, the Britten Horn Serenade and the Michaelanglo Sonnets I really came to appreciate his remarkable voice and mind. I also cursed him (God rest his soul) because there are passages Britten wrote that only he could do justice.

 

This clip I link to is rough as a cobb from a live performance with no amplification. I've sung it better and worse. You can't miss the projection or the lack of any head voice. George and I blathered too much before hand....just push the cursor past that. Not a great recording as it was a hand held digital machine too far away and the levels way too low. Sorry but it is in a windows format.

http://www.framingham.edu/faculty/mevans/Jack%20Haggerty.mp3

Edited November 2, 2008 by Mark Evans

[frogspawn]

Which brings one to the question of vocal style. Most concertina players tend to be folk musicians, and the male English 'folk club' singing style that has evolved since the 60s (in contrast to some of the trad archive singers) tends to emphasise the 'head voice' (often exaggeratedly nasal - e.g. Peter Bellamy) with speech-like articulation, avoiding more classical-sounding use of the chest (a simplification I know, but seems roughly true). I think more vocal projection would suit concertina accompaniment (as compared to the guitar), but is it possible to do this for folk repertoire without sounding like a poor imitation of Peter Pears doing a Britten arrangement in a drawing room?

I find the nasal style is mostly avoided if not ridiculed these days, but it's the way I first started singing folk songs in the 60s and it has stuck a bit, at least with some ballads. When I'm doing chanties or other chorus songs, I'm singing louder and need more air and this changes my approach. Accompanying myself on the concertina produces another experience again in that I tend to forget to breath and can run out of air, but that's the least of my problems.

[frogspawn]

I've just been comparing the octaves I have on the Crane with what I take to be the layout of a typical C/G Anglo. As far as I can see the lowest C-push on the C row of the Anglo's right-hand is the C above Middle C, so I guess Anglo players must usually be playing melody an octave above where I would normally be playing it on the Crane. Correspondingly, if they are playing chords on the left hand an octave lower than that, their chords would be in the octave above the normal male vocal range. So, assuming I have this right, this issue may not affect Anglo players in the same way.

 

I guess I could start using the upper octaves of each side in imitation of the Anglo, but that requires more reach and seems counter-intuitive.

[frogspawn]

A question for Kurt Braun...

 

If you are playing left-hand chords in the upper octave of the left-hand side, where are you playing the right-hand melody? I assume that would also be in the upper octave of the right-hand side, otherwise you would be playing chords and melody in the same octave.

[Kurt Braun]

A question for Kurt Braun...

 

If you are playing left-hand chords in the upper octave of the left-hand side, where are you playing the right-hand melody? I assume that would also be in the upper octave of the right-hand side, otherwise you would be playing chords and melody in the same octave.

 

I hesitate because I'd rather continue my "advanced" status and don't want to become "chatty."

 

I usually play the chords in closed position as far up on the left as I can. My instrument only goes up to the G above middle C on the left side. My previous instrument extended to the next C, and I still played up as far as I could on the left side. I like this because it allows me to do rather mindless chording -- only one inversion for every chord and it generally avoids parallel fifths which sound odd to most western ears and certainly to mine.

 

Another advantage is that if one is playing chords (especially sustained at volume) in closed position, they will sound muddier the lower you go. I could leave a note or two out, but I like the richer harmonies particularly with tin pan alley sorts of stuff (7th, 6th and diminished chords). So keeping them up on the keyboard helps.

 

Yet another advantage accrues when alternating chords with base notes for a stride effect. Concertinas, even duets, don't have that great piano range, so putting the chords up maximizes the stride effect by increasing the distance between the chords and the bass notes.

 

I play melodies generally on the lower end of the right side. Going above the staff is relatively rare for me -- especially doing the sorts of tunes one would sing. I guess that makes me guilty of having the melody go below the upper parts of the harmony a good bit of the time. Actually, I've never seen that written down as something one should avoid and it certainly has never struck me as in any way unusual or "bad."

 

I should also note that none of this is hard and fast and I like to try other stuff, but these sorts of default patterns make things easier when you have enough on your plate (new songs, a long day, playing with others, etc.)

 

With regard to singing, I'm a poor baritone. On a good day I can reach the first E above middle C. My range extends, not necessarily reliably, about two octaves and a note or two downward from there.

 

I'm not a strong singer, but I do sing quite a bit and I really love to sing, especially with the concertina. Without the concertina and in my church choir, I like to be between two other people singing the same part I sing or I'll just sing the melody.

 

When I learn a new song on the concertina, I play the melody on the right side at a supportive volume. That would mean the melody is played at least one octave higher than my singing and the harmony can also easily be above my voice. As I learn the tune (by lots of repetition) I can back off on the volume. With even more repetition, I can muddle through with just the chords (autoharp is great for practicing this). Finally, there are songs that I've been playing and singing for years that I can finally sing unaccompanied or even with counter melodies. It is very very rare for me to sing with my concertina in public and never doing these advanced tricks. In other words, I sing unaccompanied or with counter melodies in a room alone.

 

I do enjoy myself. There are lots of better players and singers, but you can get an idea of the sorts of fun I have from listening to me mess around at: scraggy.net/tina/playlist.htm

 

Thanks,

 

Kurt

[frogspawn]

Kurt, Many thanks for explaining your approach so fully.

 

Richard

[Anglo-Irishman]

but is it possible to do this for folk repertoire without sounding like a poor imitation of Peter Pears doing a Britten arrangement in a drawing room?

 

Well yes it should be.

 

It is!

 

The catch is that, to learn to develop your middle voice range (so as not to have to whine on the high notes), you more or less have to take classical singing lessons. But you only get these as a package with "polite" diction and classical precision of execution.

 

For me, as an Irishman, the way out of this catch is to revert to my original Co. Antrim accent when singing folk songs. This puts me at some distance from Peter Pears (again, nothing against Peter Pears!). The classically trained diaphragm still carries the voice, and the classically trained ability to open my mouth still lets it out.

 

By the way: when I was a very young man, I had a choirmaster who was a very old man. He must have learned singing somewhere round 1900. And when he was learning to sing, singing teachers would say to aspiring Carusos, "Young man, go and work on the land for two years, and then come back to me."

Because singing is a very physical thing. I rowed competitively for a season before starting my vocal training. I pumped air in and out of my lungs for a couple of hours a day, six days a week, summer and winter, for over a year - and was glad I had done so. You just need those muscles and that volume!

 

Those of you who sing shanties and forebitters, consider the heavy work that seamen did in the fresh air, day in, day out, in the days of sail, communicating from yardarm to yardarm, often in a rising gale. I bet they didn't whine!

 

 

Cheers,

John

[Mark Evans]

Those of you who sing shanties and forebitters, consider the heavy work that seamen did in the fresh air, day in, day out, in the days of sail, communicating from yardarm to yardarm, often in a rising gale. I bet they didn't whine!

 

That is certainly on the money. In bel canto technique it is called hard palate: arching the soft palate to form a dome. We do it naturally when we must be heard (and oath shouted in traffic or raising ones voice while aloft in the rigging of a clipper ). The breath support is also very natural. Most folks defeat the natural functions around the age of awareness. God forgive me, I've done experiments on me poor children. They all sang very naturally until about 5 years old. As I witnessed the changes it was truely sad.

 

Not always. I spent an afternoon in the little walled village of Montereggione a few years back and was treated to a (I'd guess 9 year old) lad singing into the cental well in the square. He was making up melodies and verses. Pure, unforced, strong, delightful singing just pouring forth. Whew! I hope no one ever tries to give him singing lessons and screws up a good thing.

 

While I would agree that for most of us to get back to natural singing, another set of ears ain't a bad idea. Going to a "classical" voice teacher may well be a self defeating road. Their pedagogy is very strict and not liable to make allowance for different applications. How many of yee shantymen wish to start with Italian vowels and simple arias from the early Baroque?

Edited November 4, 2008 by Mark Evans