Worth Restoring?

[Daniel Hersh]

One of them is here. Dubious bellows, big hole in the fretwork, some very rusty reeds. Is this a restoration project or a set of parts to be used on other concertinas? My guess would be that this one could be worth restoring, since it's a fairly desirable model (30 keys, rosewood ends).

 

This one, on the other hand, as a mahogany-ended 26-button, looks to me more like it's mainly of value to reclaim the reeds for other projects.

 

But I'm not a restorer myself, and I'd like to hear what the restorers out there have to say about this. I'm just trying to educate myself here -- I'm not actively interested in either of these.

 

Daniel

[John Sylte]

If I had the proper equipment to fix the fretwork, I would buy the rosewood lachenal for sure. But I'll pass on the 26 button jobby. When I first started teaching myself how to restore vintage concertinas, I would have snapped it up with the best of intentions. But after I've fixed up a few distressed Lachenals, I've come to appreciate the relatively small increase in cost for a box in much better condition. I look at the Ebay pictures and laugh to myself at the frustration and misery I was once so willing to subject myself to. But that's how you learn... I think when you're hungry for experience, such a fixer upper is just what the doctor ordered, but only once or twice. There are better boxes to buy for reeds alone. Maybe if you can pick something like this up in person and avoid shipping costs it would be worth it? And if I had a complete workshop, I might buy something like this and try building a new concertina around the reedpans, reeds, and bellows frames... That would be fun. But then, why not start with a 30 button? I feel a strange attraction to these old boxes, because I can see so much fascinating history in their wretched condition. And I have bought a few of them based on this attraction alone. But fixing up these beaters and putting your signature on your work is a wake up call. I've come to learn that, like old houses, I think it's probably easier to fix up a box that was well cared for (or build a high quality product from scratch) rather than invest your time and energy into a well loved / beat up old shack.

 

One thing that amazes me about some of these instruments that pop up on ebay (like the 26er linked above)... How on earth do they get SO USED!? As a musician, I can't imagine overlooking so many requisite repairs and continuing to play an instrument. Do you know what I mean? It's like coming across a car for sale that has a bad engine, bad wheels, bad brakes, bad steering... ALL AT ONCE. How could you drive without brakes? How could you roll without steering? How could you steer without a running engine? How did it ever even make it to the car lot? It seems once the bellows give up, the instrument would no longer be useful and it would then sit until someone fixed the bellows. But you see so many of these ancient boxes that appear to have been played for billions of hours with multiple repair issues all at the same time. Bad bellows, bad reeds, bad action, cracked pad boards, missing chamois... Some boxes have clearly sat and sat and sat, and then they just deteriorate, but others seem to have fallen prey to excessive love. I always imagine some very talented musician, some long dead virtuouso that we'll never get to hear, making beautiful music on one of these wrecks, and being pleased as punch to simply have the instrument to play. And then he/she died and some great grandchild sold the instrument a hundred years later on Ebay (to some nut like me)... It makes me wonder how much we take for granted todays high standard of quality.

 

Anyway, I'll move along now. Just my $ .02 ...

[Rod]

If I had the proper equipment to fix the fretwork, I would buy the rosewood lachenal for sure. But I'll pass on the 26 button jobby. When I first started teaching myself how to restore vintage concertinas, I would have snapped it up with the best of intentions. But after I've fixed up a few distressed Lachenals, I've come to appreciate the relatively small increase in cost for a box in much better condition. I look at the Ebay pictures and laugh to myself at the frustration and misery I was once so willing to subject myself to. But that's how you learn... I think when you're hungry for experience, such a fixer upper is just what the doctor ordered, but only once or twice. There are better boxes to buy for reeds alone. Maybe if you can pick something like this up in person and avoid shipping costs it would be worth it? And if I had a complete workshop, I might buy something like this and try building a new concertina around the reedpans, reeds, and bellows frames... That would be fun. But then, why not start with a 30 button? I feel a strange attraction to these old boxes, because I can see so much fascinating history in their wretched condition. And I have bought a few of them based on this attraction alone. But fixing up these beaters and putting your signature on your work is a wake up call. I've come to learn that, like old houses, I think it's probably easier to fix up a box that was well cared for (or build a high quality product from scratch) rather than invest your time and energy into a well loved / beat up old shack.

 

One thing that amazes me about some of these instruments that pop up on ebay (like the 26er linked above)... How on earth do they get SO USED!? As a musician, I can't imagine overlooking so many requisite repairs and continuing to play an instrument. Do you know what I mean? It's like coming across a car for sale that has a bad engine, bad wheels, bad brakes, bad steering... ALL AT ONCE. How could you drive without brakes? How could you roll without steering? How could you steer without a running engine? How did it ever even make it to the car lot? It seems once the bellows give up, the instrument would no longer be useful and it would then sit until someone fixed the bellows. But you see so many of these ancient boxes that appear to have been played for billions of hours with multiple repair issues all at the same time. Bad bellows, bad reeds, bad action, cracked pad boards, missing chamois... Some boxes have clearly sat and sat and sat, and then they just deteriorate, but others seem to have fallen prey to excessive love. I always imagine some very talented musician, some long dead virtuouso that we'll never get to hear, making beautiful music on one of these wrecks, and being pleased as punch to simply have the instrument to play. And then he/she died and some great grandchild sold the instrument a hundred years later on Ebay (to some nut like me)... It makes me wonder how much we take for granted todays high standard of quality.

 

Anyway, I'll move along now. Just my $ .02 ...

 

I wonder how many of these wrecks ended their days as no more than toys in the hands of young children who stumbled across them in attics, and in all innocence abused them.

[spindizzy]

I wonder how many of these wrecks ended their days as no more than toys in the hands of young children who stumbled across them in attics, and in all innocence abused them.

 

When I went with my husband to pick up his new fiddle, we waited while the luthier returned a violin to a customer and watched her sign for several thousand pounds in repairs for her fathers violin which the grandkids had used as a cricket bat .... none of the family had apparently realised that it was worth 20-30K.

[Greg Jowaisas]

I think one thing we forget is that the lower grade Lachenals were filling a need in that period's concertina market. 100+ years ago the manufacturing age had brought the miracle of available and affordable goods. Lachenals were relatively inexpensive and, most importantly, they worked and were reliable.

(Without the frustrations of their contemporary Chinese counterparts and with what we now regard as the "concertina reed sound".)

I imagine after pinching pennies for a few months it would be a real thrill to bring home a concertina and be able to make ones own music in a world where there was no radio, no phonograph.

 

I also think musical expectations of the instrument might have been lower. Irish Trad was not in the concertina drivers seat and there may have been a more comfortable role for 20b and 26b mahogany end Lachenals to fill back then. The present day abused ebay "bargain" may have had a more revered and glorious musical past than we can appreciate if we only think in terms of cutting edge or virtuoso music.

 

John Sylte has a very good point in that every repair requires weighing time and money vs return. One of the difficult things I have to do as a concertina repairman is evaluate the musical potential of an instrument in for repair. Even more difficult is to communicate to the owner what they may or may not get in return for their money. Much easier for me to say, "Spend $500. on reconditioning this Jeffries" than to have to say, "It will take $500. to get this Lachenal 26b up and playing again." The amount of time and work may be the same for both instruments.

 

There are lots of addendums and hidden consequences of repair. Replacing fretwork is tedious but not a big problem for me. (At one time I used to cut pearl for fancy banjo inlay) But matching the existing finish on the fretwork replacement is quite difficult and often entails a refinishing job on both ends to make everything look right.

 

Same thing goes for a tuning. That is usually fairly straight forward with the proper equipment. But the time spent afterwards getting the instrument set up properly and playing well can be considerable.

 

It is always a priviledge and an honor to get an old instrument, regardless of its pedigree, up and playing again. But time can be money, and a potential buyer does have to weigh the expense vs the return when considering the purchase of a vintage instrument.

 

Greg

[asdormire]

But if bought at the right price, that $500 to repair the 26 button will still not be unreasonable compared to the $2000 spent on a comparable new hybrid. Especially if you have to have that english concertina sound.

 

Alan

[Frank Edgley]

"But if bought at the right price, that $500 to repair the 26 button will still not be unreasonable compared to the $2000 spent on a comparable new hybrid. Especially if you have to have that english concertina sound."

 

I'm not so sure, if you're talking about these particular instruments. Unless your talking to someone who is repairing instruments as a hobby, you won't get too much in the way of repairs for $500. Last time I checked, the going price for tuning was $3 per reed for tuning. That's $180 for a 30 button. Then there's getting the dirt & rust off the reeds. More money. Old Lachenals are notorious for having warped reedpans which cause the instrument to have anything from double notes sounding to very uneven sound. This is a frustrating repair to accomplish. Internal gaskets need at least shimming to get any response and air pressure, and work almost always has to be done on the gasketing on top of the chamber dividers. Assuming you can get the reeds in tune, and playing well, there's the problem of bellows. Most of these instruments are 80 to over 100 years old and have leaks. The more leaks you patch, the more leaks spring up due to the brittle leather of the bellows, so a new bellows is probably needed. Hundreds of dollars more. Add all of these things to the purchase price and it begins to add up. Lachenals can have a very tice tone, but are not racecars so you may be limited as to the type of music you can play. This is definitely something done as a "project" with low expectations of outcome. Obviously the better the initial condition, the better the potential outcome.

[Jon C.]

"But if bought at the right price, that $500 to repair the 26 button will still not be unreasonable compared to the $2000 spent on a comparable new hybrid. Especially if you have to have that english concertina sound."

 

I'm not so sure, if you're talking about these particular instruments. Unless your talking to someone who is repairing instruments as a hobby, you won't get too much in the way of repairs for $500. Last time I checked, the going price for tuning was $3 per reed for tuning. That's $180 for a 30 button. Then there's getting the dirt & rust off the reeds. More money. Old Lachenals are notorious for having warped reedpans which cause the instrument to have anything from double notes sounding to very uneven sound. This is a frustrating repair to accomplish. Internal gaskets need at least shimming to get any response and air pressure, and work almost always has to be done on the gasketing on top of the chamber dividers. Assuming you can get the reeds in tune, and playing well, there's the problem of bellows. Most of these instruments are 80 to over 100 years old and have leaks. The more leaks you patch, the more leaks spring up due to the brittle leather of the bellows, so a new bellows is probably needed. Hundreds of dollars more. Add all of these things to the purchase price and it begins to add up. Lachenals can have a very tice tone, but are not racecars so you may be limited as to the type of music you can play. This is definitely something done as a "project" with low expectations of outcome. Obviously the better the initial condition, the better the potential outcome.

Sounds like the perfect ticket for me! I strive to loose money on these deals...

[asdormire]

"But if bought at the right price, that $500 to repair the 26 button will still not be unreasonable compared to the $2000 spent on a comparable new hybrid. Especially if you have to have that english concertina sound."

 

I'm not so sure, if you're talking about these particular instruments. Unless your talking to someone who is repairing instruments as a hobby, you won't get too much in the way of repairs for $500. Last time I checked, the going price for tuning was $3 per reed for tuning. That's $180 for a 30 button. Then there's getting the dirt & rust off the reeds. More money. Old Lachenals are notorious for having warped reedpans which cause the instrument to have anything from double notes sounding to very uneven sound. This is a frustrating repair to accomplish. Internal gaskets need at least shimming to get any response and air pressure, and work almost always has to be done on the gasketing on top of the chamber dividers. Assuming you can get the reeds in tune, and playing well, there's the problem of bellows. Most of these instruments are 80 to over 100 years old and have leaks. The more leaks you patch, the more leaks spring up due to the brittle leather of the bellows, so a new bellows is probably needed. Hundreds of dollars more. Add all of these things to the purchase price and it begins to add up. Lachenals can have a very tice tone, but are not racecars so you may be limited as to the type of music you can play. This is definitely something done as a "project" with low expectations of outcome. Obviously the better the initial condition, the better the potential outcome.

 

Missed seeing you at NESI, Frank.

 

I understand what you are saying, I guess my point was that if you can pick one up that only needs that $500 in repairs for a couple hundred, then it is worth giving it a shot. If it needs three times that much work, then no, buy the hybrid.

 

Alan

[Simon H]

I guess what I have to say may not match in well in these hard times, but there are certain decisions which we sometimes make or need to make without reference to value and payback. In the field I work, environmental, decisions around sustainable energy at the home level seldom make sense on a time-to-payback basis and I always counsel people to consider such investment as a sunk cost. A big wind / solar system can cost tens of thousands, but if you have that money in the bank, it could be better capitalised in an off-grid power system, it will make you feel better, take away your power bills and give you worthy feelings, perhaps one day it may pay back more than you can imagine now.....

 

Musical instruments are bought for enjoyment, learning, challenge, sharing, as objects of desire, as companions on dark nights, as stimulants, as icebreakers at social gatherings etc etc. None of these uses should relate back to economic value. Spending more on a beatiful distressed object, to breathe life back into it, than its value is money often well spent. We are most of us in this relationship with conccertinas for the love of the things than to make money. If the instrument has a chance of renewed life with future generations, perhaps its almost our duty if we have the means to facilitate that?

 

Nonetheless if choices exist, then economic considerations must surely play their part.

 

Simon

Edited October 1, 2008 by Simon H

[Daniel Hersh]

Here's how the auctions ended: Chris Algar bought the rosewood-ended 30-key for GBP 631.00 (approximately US $1,119.39). An unknown bidder bought the mahogany-ended 26-button for GBP 102.00 (approximately US $180.95).

 

One of them is here. Dubious bellows, big hole in the fretwork, some very rusty reeds. Is this a restoration project or a set of parts to be used on other concertinas? My guess would be that this one could be worth restoring, since it's a fairly desirable model (30 keys, rosewood ends).

 

This one, on the other hand, as a mahogany-ended 26-button, looks to me more like it's mainly of value to reclaim the reeds for other projects.

 

But I'm not a restorer myself, and I'd like to hear what the restorers out there have to say about this. I'm just trying to educate myself here -- I'm not actively interested in either of these.

 

Daniel

[Chris Drinkwater]

Well, given that Chris Algar sells 30 key rosewood-ended Lachenal anglos like this one, albeit in good playing order, for £1500 and it costs him £350-400 to have it restored, that's a profit of at least £400, which ain't bad!

 

Chris

[Bill Crossland]

Ibought the 26 key for restoration and to put a basically sound instrument back into the playing community. It keeps me amused, makes decent starter instruments available and with a bit of luck puts a few pounds into my Suttner fund! Heres one I prepared earlier, from much the same condition:

[John Sylte]

Beautiful Billcro! With bushed metal buttons even!!! i would love to see before and after pics of the 26er you just bought when it is finished. If ever there is a testament to a restorers skill, that would be it... Inspiring work!