Adding An English

[NoNaYet]

I'd like to hear from those of you that play both an English and an Anglo how disruptive it was/is to add an English to the stable when you've only played the Anglo.

 

A few years ago I bought a cello, and really enjoyed the range, but dropped it because it really messed with my violin playing. On the other hand, guitar playing has no effect on the fiddle.

 

NNY

[Doug Anderson]

My first squeezebox was an EC. After playing the EC for several years I was attracted by the ease of playing chords on a DBA. I was advised to consider a CBA instead, because of the push-pull business. I briefly tried a borrowed CBA and was overwhelmed by the size and weight. I bought a smallish DBA and an instruction book, set the EC aside for a couple of months, and taught myself to play rudimentary tunes and accompaniments on the DBA. The real test came when I picked up the EC again. I had no trouble with the fingering, but I found myself trying to fit the bellows direction to the note being played. That gradually went away as I started switching back and forth between the two instruments. Five years later, I take both the EC and the DBA when I go out to play with others and switch back and forth with no difficulty. I've never played an Anglo for more than a few minutes but I'm confident I could learn to play it alternating with the EC too.

[RatFace]

I play B/C and D/G diatonic accordions and swapping between these is not a big deal (even though I don't even play the B/C box much/well). It takes a few seconds to readjust, but it's not a big deal. The difference in feel between Anglo and English concertina will be even greater, so should be even less difficult to get used to.

[Anglo-Irishman]

I'd like to hear from those of you that play both an English and an Anglo how disruptive it was/is to add an English to the stable when you've only played the Anglo.

 

A few years ago I bought a cello, and really enjoyed the range, but dropped it because it really messed with my violin playing. On the other hand, guitar playing has no effect on the fiddle.

 

NNY

I'm just in the process of adding a Duet to my Anglo. Got it yesterday, and was wondering how it would go. I'd studied the layout beforehand (it's a Crane), so I at least knew where to look for the notes. Now, after 24 hours or so of ownership, I'm picking out tunes on it and finding the cords for them. Slowly, but I'm getting the hang of it.

 

From the point of view of "interference", the Crane should be worse than the English, because it looks somewhat like an Anglo, with the air-button under the right thumb, and rows of 5 buttons. Out of sheer force of habit, when I pick it up, I press the air-valve, draw the bellows out half way, and mash down a group of consecutive buttons. Then I notice that it's not an Anglo. But, as I say, I've only had it 24 hours

 

I've never had any problems with multiple fretted stringed instruments. Banjo, mandolin, guitar - as soon as I pick one of them up, the music centre of my brain loads the appropriate subroutine. On the contrary, I find that one instrument teaches me lessons that I can use on another.

I hope it will be the same with my different concertinas - and yours

 

Chers,

John

[fiddlerjoebob]

the appropriate subroutine.

 

 

Cool, I gota get me one of them.

 

Fjb

[Anglo-Irishman]

the appropriate subroutine.

 

 

Cool, I gota get me one of them.

 

Fjb

 

Yeah, they're kinda neat. Sorta like device drivers in a computer. You think music, and the subroutine thinks banjo music, guitar music, anglo music.

I got an addressing exception in my music processor once. Somebody handed me a guitar, and the guitar subroutine drove my left hand - but somehow the banjo subroutine got control of my right hand. Everybody laughed and said, "Hey you're playing banjo on that guitar!" The other way round would have been cacophony ...

 

My Crane subroutine isn't even available as a beta version yet - but it'll be released real soon now!

 

Cheers,

John

[catty]

I find AC and melodeons highly intuitive. Although I persevere (occasionally) with EC, I struggle finding the notes and, thus, haven't been able to develop proficiency on EC. Of the half-dozen instruments that I'm proficient on and others that I dabble with, they all have a sequential note progression from FINGER TO FINGER, rather than switching back and forth from HAND TO HAND...even woodwinds. This is the only barrier I find going from AC to EC.

[Larry Stout]

I play an EC and took up a Crane about a year ago. The EC still gets most of my playing time. My EC playing hasn't had any il effects, but the Crane subroutine is in the barely beta, still buggy, stage. When I tried an anglo some years ago I couldn't make any sense out of it; I found EC more logical and I like the sound better. The Crane is also logical. Now if I could only get the bass clef for left hand, treble for right hand thing down and get used to playing chords in one hand while the other hand does the melody.

 

I suspect that it helps to have one of the kinds of keyboard down solidly before attempting more than one system.

[LDT]

the appropriate subroutine.

 

 

Cool, I gota get me one of them.

 

Fjb

 

Yeah, they're kinda neat. Sorta like device drivers in a computer. You think music, and the subroutine thinks banjo music, guitar music, anglo music.

I got an addressing exception in my music processor once. Somebody handed me a guitar, and the guitar subroutine drove my left hand - but somehow the banjo subroutine got control of my right hand. Everybody laughed and said, "Hey you're playing banjo on that guitar!" The other way round would have been cacophony ...

 

My Crane subroutine isn't even available as a beta version yet - but it'll be released real soon now!

 

Cheers,

John

 

Tried it in other modes recorder, piano, guitar, bass guitar and it crashed. Mine is still in 'learn' mode for the concertina.

[hjcjones]

Like the others, I don't have a problem switching between different instruments, although I found recorder and whistle fingering too close, but not close enough, so it had to be one or the other.

 

The problem I sometimes have is remembering which instrument to play. Sometimes in a session a tune will come into my head and I'll start it, only to remember, just before I get to the tricky bit, that I usually play it on something else. Usually I somehow manage to fudge my way through.

[lildogturpy]

After playing the EC for 4 years I went to buy replacement springs at the button box and came out with a C#D button accordion (and the springs)

 

I thought I would have great difficulties with the push/pull but it was much less painful than I expected. Haven't noticed much effect on the EC so far.

 

Sometimes in a session a tune will come into my head and I'll start it, only to remember, just before I get to the tricky bit, that I usually play it on something else. Usually I somehow manage to fudge my way through.

 

In my case, this usually takes the form of getting to the tricky bit and realizing I never learned this tune, just recognized the melody and thought I had.

[Ptarmigan]

I find AC and melodeons highly intuitive. Although I persevere (occasionally) with EC, I struggle finding the notes and, thus, haven't been able to develop proficiency on EC. Of the half-dozen instruments that I'm proficient on and others that I dabble with, they all have a sequential note progression from FINGER TO FINGER, rather than switching back and forth from HAND TO HAND...even woodwinds. This is the only barrier I find going from AC to EC.

 

Catty, I have to say I agree with you. Like yourself, I'm kinda handy on a few stringed yokes & I've been playing Anglo for 30 years & recently I picked up a C/F Hohner & I'm finding it pretty easy to find my way around it.

 

However, my new adventure arrived only a couple of days ago, a beautiful old Wheatstone Treble & although I can already pick out a few song airs, I find I'm having to think a heck of a lot more about where those danged notes are, but I think it's different enough from the Anglo, that I'm not going to get totally confused going back & forward.

After all, I've got TWO air buttons on the Wheatstone so I need never run out of air, although I think I'm going to miss those lovely little gasps of air you get when playing Anglo.

 

Maybe, on the EC, the gasps will be coming from me, as I fumble for that elusive next button!

 

As for the switching back & forward from end to end aspect, I get the feeling that it'll come pretty naturally after a while, as long as I can find enough time to devote to it ....... of course, I could be wrong, only time will tell!

 

I bought the Dick Miles EC Tutor & I notice he recommends playing TWO BARS in one direction & then the next two bars, in the other direction, so I'm going to try that method to get me started at least.

 

NNY, Looks like we're both heading out on the same voyage of discovery, going from Anglo to English.

 

However, I trust you will not be giving up the Anglo, but like me, hoping to play both, side by side.

 

GOOD LUCK to you. Maybe we should arrange to check out our progress after a few months.

 

First one to give up the English, buys a CYBERDRINK for everyone on C.net!

 

Cheers

Dick

Edited September 27, 2008 by Ptarmigan

[catty]

Very cool--congratluations, Dick.

 

Although I am least proficient on EC, it is among my favorite instruments. I enjoy the concept and aesthetic of EC more than I do AC. For me, I experience EC as a more cerebral instrument, much as piano.

 

Whoever said, on another thread, that the difference between EC and AC is much the same as that between PA and DBA, is quite right, I think. I don't think the risk of confusing the two is great, but rather, the simple challenge of learning twice as many fingerings in this short life.

[groeswenphil]

I'd love to play an English concertina.....better still a duet. Thing is, at 54 I don't think I have enough years ahead of me. I already find that when I'm in book shops I only by things that have won some sort of prize....haven't got time for the less than fantastic any more.

 

Phil

[Larry Stout]

Thing is, at 54 I don't think I have enough years ahead of me.

 

Phil

 

Hey-- I took up English concertina at 55 to rewire my brain and keep me young. I recommend it. I bought my tenor treble aeola as a 60 th birthday present for myself. I figure when/if I retire I'll have much more time to play them. My father had an organ in his living room up until about age 85. If I play that long I'll have 30 years to master the EC. You might too.

[catty]

Phil-

 

Bear in mind that Duets are similar to melodeons, and melodeons were designed to be easy to play. IMO, DBA-type instruments are among the easiest instruments to learn to play simply, and there are thousands of tunes that can be played in simple fashion and sound good.

[Dirge]

Phil-

 

Bear in mind that Duets are similar to melodeons, and melodeons were designed to be easy to play.

 

No they aren't. That's rubbish.

 

Phil, I took up the duet 3 years ago at 48, so I don't think you can use your age as an excuse. They are difficult to get to grips with, but now I have it is such a satisfying instrument to play, and I love it. You can do so much. Why don't you buy that nice 71 key Lachenal that I'm selling? £1800 for a top class instrument. Bargain!

[Anglo-Irishman]

I'd love to play an English concertina.....better still a duet. Thing is, at 54 I don't think I have enough years ahead of me. I already find that when I'm in book shops I only by things that have won some sort of prize....haven't got time for the less than fantastic any more.

 

Phil

 

Phil,

Just join us in the Club of Second-Half-Century Brain Re-wirers!

 

I'm now 62, and have been playing the Anglo and the related Bandoneon since I was 18. And just last week, I took delivery of my very first chromatic free-reeder, a Crane duet concertina. I'm really surprised at how quickly I'm getting the hang of it. I've got the scales and chords for a couple of keys, and I can find the right buttons for familiar tunes - slowly and hesitantly at the moment, but speed is just a matter of practice.

 

Try it - you might find it easier than you think

 

I wouldn't give this advice to an older person who has never played an instrument of any kind before. Starting from scratch, there's so much to learn: on one hand the mathematical thoery behind the music, and on the other hand the feeling for intervals, chord changes and timing, and then building up an active repertoire of music - in short, developing your musicality. The technicalities of operating the user interface of a specific instrument are only the tip of an iceberg.

But if you've played another instrument for many years, all you have to worry about is the tip of this particular new iceberg. You can transfer your acquired theoretical and intuitive musicality and much of your repertoire to the "underwater" part.

 

What often hinders older beginners is the finger dexterity involved in practically any instrument (except perhaps the harmonica). However, if your fingers are accustomed to making the contorsions for one instrument, you can train them for new contorsions on another.

 

The mental side is that, at 50+, you've forgotten what it's like to be a beginner at anything. Just remind yourself that, as a teenager, you were always thinking, "I'll never be able to do it like he does," or "I'll never be proficient at this." But just a few years on, you could, and you were!

 

Maybe soon we can welcome you to the Club!

 

Cheers,

John