Button Friction In New Jack Ec

[ragtimer]

I bought a new Jack from The Button Box at NESI, deciding it was finally time to try the English system. (Not that I would ever give up my Hayden chops ).

 

It plays OK, but some of the lower-pitch buttons have quite a bit of friction against their holes in the ends, enough to be distracting. I don't expect felt-bushed holes for $300-odd, but I'm wondering:

 

--is this normal for Jack/Jackie/Rochelle, or am I pushing the buttons from a bad finger position?

 

--will normal wear make the problem better? Or improve my finger position technique

 

--is there something I can lubricate the buttons with? I'm thinking of silicone spray lube, but one hears horror stories about ever getting silicone on anything that may need to be painted or glued in the future.

I'd spray a little onto a Q-tip and apply it to the side of the button.

 

--Might the friction actually be down in the action pan, not the end plate?

 

Anyway, I am starting to get the hang of the English system. Playing scales and simple (slow!) tunes.

Thanks, Mike K.

[Theo]

The only safe lubricants for that location are those that are completely dry eg talc, or graphite. Graphite is more effective. Anything liquid, or sticky may help in the short term, but in the long term will attract dust and will make matters worse.

Something like this should help

[ragtimer]

The only safe lubricants for that location are those that are completely dry eg talc, or graphite. Graphite is more effective. Anything liquid, or sticky may help in the short term, but in the long term will attract dust and will make matters worse.

Something like this should help

Thanks. I thought of graphite powder, which I already have some of. But it's black, and would blacken my fingers, clothes, etc. (tho invisible on the Jack's black ends).

 

I may still have some spray-on Teflon lube. It evaporates and leaves a white powder residue of tiny Teflon particles, which are white. That may look bad on Jack, but not on fingers, clothing, etc. Unforch it probably has to be sprayed directly onto the buttons, not indirectly applied via Q-tip, so will "frost" the Jack's ends. I'll try indirect first.

 

I do agree that for lubing the internal button post in the action pan, graphite would be OK.

--Mike K.

[Theo]

You will need to take the ends off first to get the material to the right place. That will also largely avoid getting it in the wrong place!

[d.elliott]

Why mess about with a new instrument when it still under manufacturer's warranty and not fit for purpose?

 

Actually I would not lubricate. Friction is occuring because either the holes are fouled (end grain, or ragged also end grain roughness - action end plate and/or the action plate holes);

 

OR/ AND

 

there is some misalignment which is trying twist the key or push it sideways, check the alignment of the action plate hole, which forms the socket that the key registers into on the action plate, and the action box end, plus the arm and the spring.

 

You will probably have some lateral force on the key as well as any rough wood grain rubbing & pinching on the key.

 

Dave E

[jeffw]

It plays OK, but some of the lower-pitch buttons have quite a bit of friction against their holes in the ends, enough to be distracting. I don't expect felt-bushed holes for $300-odd, but I'm wondering:

 

(Assuming the Jack is built similar to the Rochelle)

I have a Rochelle, which had a button that was sticking. I tried the graphite, but it made no difference. I eventually disassembled the entire button, and discovered there was a burr at the end of the metal pin under the button that was catching up in the button board hole. I smoothed off the burr and that fixed the problem.

 

I don't think it would be wise to undertake this effort without trying the graphite approach first, because the key lever post is only held in place by a friction fit into the high density fiberboard. Everytime you pull out the lever you will loosen this fit. I had to deal with this on my one single button because the lever post would work itself loose, so I reversed the spring mechanism to push on the pad side, rather than pull on the button side. I was lucky that this was a button I could easily modify.

 

Hope this helps...

 

Jeff

[ragtimer]

Thanks for all the suggestions. For now, I'll just live with it and see if it doesn't "wear in" and loosen up the couple of sticky buttons. They aren't catching or binding, just lots of wood-to-plastic friction. It really varies with the angle that I push the button, so a better finger technique will probably help too.

--Mike K.

[Anglo-Irishman]

I don't think it would be wise to undertake this effort without trying the graphite approach first, because the key lever post is only held in place by a friction fit into the high density fiberboard. Everytime you pull out the lever you will loosen this fit. I had to deal with this on my one single button because the lever post would work itself loose, so I reversed the spring mechanism to push on the pad side, rather than pull on the button side. I was lucky that this was a button I could easily modify.

 

Hm!

Seems the Rochelle/Jack are not the big step up in entry-level quality compared with the Stagis that they were made out to be! At least when you've cured the teething troubles in a Stagi, you have a decent-sounding accordion-reeder - which is more than can be said for the new Rochelle I got to try out recently

 

Sure, the Rochelles/Jacks are cheaper, but they're from China, and how is a Chinese quality tester to know what a concertina should sound like?

You could tell him it should sound like a sheng (traditional Chinese free-reed mouth organ), but he probably doesn't know what that sounds like either, and anyway, there's no way an accordion-reeded concertina is going to sound that good!

 

(Better stop now - I sound like an American talking about Chinese banjos )

 

Cheers,

John

[jeffw]

Hm!

Seems the Rochelle/Jack are not the big step up in entry-level quality compared with the Stagis that they were made out to be! At least when you've cured the teething troubles in a Stagi, you have a decent-sounding accordion-reeder - which is more than can be said for the new Rochelle I got to try out recently

 

Just a quick follow up. I'm in no position to compare the Rochelle to a Stagi, having never played a Stagi. But I definitely got my money's worth out of the Rochelle. I had no delusions that it would sound or play like a nicer concertina, I only wanted to know if I could get my head (and fingers ) around the concertina concept without a big investment. Apart from the one button that liked to stick and I was able to fix, the Rochelle worked flawlessly.

[Peter]

I have to chime in with more support for the Rochelle. It's light years ahead of the Stagis. In fact I liked it so much I returned to Wim to order a concertina reeded instrument (just have to wait until I reach the top of the waiting list!)

[Anglo-Irishman]

I have to chime in with more support for the Rochelle. It's light years ahead of the Stagis. In fact I liked it so much I returned to Wim to order a concertina reeded instrument (just have to wait until I reach the top of the waiting list!)

 

Aha!

 

There we have the difference! I liked my Stagi so much that the thought of a concertina-reeded Anglo receded into the "nice to have if I ever have a win in Lotto" category.

 

After 10 years of public playing, even in acoustically difficult venues like barns and city streets, I decided that the rather weak bellows was the only fly in the ointment, and reckoned it was worth investing in a replacement bellows by Wim Wakker - which is a lot better than what he puts on the Rochelle! Now I reckon my Stagi is good for another 10 years

 

So, mid-term, a Stagi is considerably cheaper

 

The only reason why I recently bought a vintage concertina was because I wanted to expand into Duet playing, and there are no new, entry-level Duets (except Haydens, which somehow didn't appeal to me). Obviously, my "new" Lachenal Crane has simply more "presence" than my Stagi, and an Anglo with that sound would be a magnificent solo instrument. But with my Stagi, I can wait for that Lotto win!

 

Cheers,

John