Irish Concertina

[jhoggatt]

I am a new member to the forum and very new to the world of concertinas. I have been doing a lot of reading on this site and others to try and learn as much as I can before I make my first concertina purchase.

 

To start, I am interested in using a concertina to play along with other instruments for traditional irish and other folk tunes. This means that I mostly play in the keys of G and D. To try and more accurately describe the sound I am after, I really like the music of Noel Hill... though of course any concertina I buy in my hands will never sound like that!

 

Now, I am familiar with music (I play banjo and mandolin) and with forums dedicated to a particular instrument. Beginners come onto those sites and ask for suggestions on instruments and people will talk about BAS and MAS, and I think you all refer to CAS (Concertina Acquisition Syndrome). Inevitably on these sites people will try and convince a poor newcomer that if you don't spend at least XXX dollars you shouldn't even bother learning the instrument, yet most of us learned on something secondhand or much cheaper anyway. With that said, an instrument that will hold up and play in tune is necessary to learn properly, so a middle of the road has to be found.

 

So... based on reading other threads and other websites, it seems that the Rochelles are a very common suggestion. Just to make sure I am not completely off... would this work for what I want?

 

This Rochelle is listed as being in the keys of G and C, yet I will need to play in the key of D quite frequently. I don't presume it is that hard to drop down to the third row of buttons to get that C# when I need it, but is it going to be more of a problem than I think?

 

Lastly, unlike any other instrument I play, there is such a wide variety of designs of concertinas... and I presume that if I did acquire CAS down the road, that changing to a different button pattern would be incredibly difficult. Is there another arrangement of buttons that I might want later on that is different than the Rochelle, and by learning on the Rochelle am I screwing myself up for later?

 

And finally, very recently I came across someone who has a new Hohner D40... I know nothing about these as I have not read much about them. Can I learn on this instrument? They only want $70 for it which is obviously cheaper than the Rochelle.

 

Thanks for any information you can give me.

Edited September 18, 2008 by jhoggatt

[wntrmute]

So far as the Hohner goes, it will not work for you in D unless it is tuned to G/D. It's a 20 button instrument, and the more common C/G will not have any C#'s at all. A G/D Hohner, however, may work well enough for you and it may not. Hohner didn't impress me, and I think (this is just a not-so-very-informed opinion) that their quality lately may be pretty hit or miss.

 

The Rochelle has 3 C#'s, and I've been able to use them to play songs in D (and related modes) without much problem. One of the first songs I could play used C#'s in it.

On the Rochelle, all of the C#'s are on the push, which is a bit limiting -- but on a G/D 20 button instrument all of the C#'s would only be on the pull (where the F#'s are on a C/G instrument). Same limitation, mostly, just a different direction.

[Daniel Hersh]

The 30-button C/G Anglo is the standard instrument for Irish traditional music (aka ITM). If you want to aim at the Noel Hill sound, that's what you want, and the Rochelle is the best bet for a beginner's model. Yes, lots of the tunes are in D -- but that's the instrument they use. And the Rochelle is designed (via its button spacing & action design) to have a similar feel to a higher-end instrument of the same type.

 

Avoid the Hohner -- you'll need that third row of buttons, and the Hohner quality control doesn't match the Rochelle's.

 

Daniel

 

I am a new member to the forum and very new to the world of concertinas. I have been doing a lot of reading on this site and others to try and learn as much as I can before I make my first concertina purchase.

 

To start, I am interested in using a concertina to play along with other instruments for traditional irish and other folk tunes. This means that I mostly play in the keys of G and D. To try and more accurately describe the sound I am after, I really like the music of Noel Hill... though of course any concertina I buy in my hands will never sound like that!

 

Now, I am familiar with music (I play banjo and mandolin) and with forums dedicated to a particular instrument. Beginners come onto those sites and ask for suggestions on instruments and people will talk about BAS and MAS, and I think you all refer to CAS (Concertina Acquisition Syndrome). Inevitably on these sites people will try and convince a poor newcomer that if you don't spend at least XXX dollars you shouldn't even bother learning the instrument, yet most of us learned on something secondhand or much cheaper anyway. With that said, an instrument that will hold up and play in tune is necessary to learn properly, so a middle of the road has to be found.

 

So... based on reading other threads and other websites, it seems that the Rochelles are a very common suggestion. Just to make sure I am not completely off... would this work for what I want?

 

This Rochelle is listed as being in the keys of G and C, yet I will need to play in the key of D quite frequently. I don't presume it is that hard to drop down to the third row of buttons to get that C# when I need it, but is it going to be more of a problem than I think?

 

Lastly, unlike any other instrument I play, there is such a wide variety of designs of concertinas... and I presume that if I did acquire CAS down the road, that changing to a different button pattern would be incredibly difficult. Is there another arrangement of buttons that I might want later on that is different than the Rochelle, and by learning on the Rochelle am I screwing myself up for later?

 

And finally, very recently I came across someone who has a new Hohner D40... I know nothing about these as I have not read much about them. Can I learn on this instrument? They only want $70 for it which is obviously cheaper than the Rochelle.

 

Thanks for any information you can give me.

[Fergus_fiddler]

The worst disadvantage I see in a Rochelle is the Wheatstone keyboard layout.

 

I mean, The middle C# - the most used - is in the 3rd row right hand, only in the push. Most of the best ITM players favour a Jeffries layout, that is slightly different, but you have another C# in the pull in 2nd button, 3rd row, right hand. I think that a Rochelle with Jeffries layout would be perfect if ITM is what you're looking for, but I understand that Wim Wakker designed a concertina for general purpose.

 

If you want something vintage but cheaper, try to find a 24 or 26 button Lachenal that would provide you enough accidentals for to play in the keys of C, G, D, A and their modes, thus 99,9 % of irish tunes.

 

Cheers

 

Edited for spelling...

Edited September 18, 2008 by Fergus_fiddler

[tombilly]

Yes, 30 button C/G is a good choice for ITM.

 

Playing in D is harder because your fingers have to jump around the rows a bit - it's not very intuitive but that's the way it is.

 

C# on push only in Wheatstone is not a major problem if you get used to using the B on the push on the LHS. This frees up your right forefinger for the C#. I would hazard a guess that there many times more Wheatstone layouts in existence than Jeffries and that very many Wheatstone layouts are used in ITM - it's the default from what I see.

[Azalin]

I'd personnaly suggest an accordion-reeded C/G concertina from makers like Tedrow, Edgley, Morse, etc. From my own experience, yeah the sound isnt as neat as concertina reeds, but the action is great, much better than many vintage concertinas I've tried. So I'd rather learn the instrument on an *easy* instrument with accordion reeds than a harder instrument with concertina reeds.

 

But you're talking around 2000$US.

[wntrmute]

I would agree that a Morse, Tedrow, Edgley, etc would be an excellent choice, but they are 6 times the price of the Rochelle. It may be a bit much for someone who is 'testing the waters' so to speak.

[CaryK]

Playing in D on a 30 button C/G is not all that difficult. Just practice your key of D scale until it becomes comfortable and smooth and you'll have no problem playing ITM tunes in that key on a C/G. If you were more interested in American Folk or Morris dance music then a 30 button G/D might be useful, but not essential for success.

 

I had poor experiences with the Hohner D40. Cannot recommend that as a way to begin. Rochelle or a Stagi from the Button Box are probably the best choices for beginning if you don't want to spend too much money.

 

Best o'luck.

Edited September 18, 2008 by CaryK