Ab/eb To C/f?

[Ptarmigan]

I'm just wondering if an old Lachenal could be retuned from Ab/Eb { up or down ? } to C/F?

 

Would that be just too far to take the reeds?

 

I only ask because the singers in our ballad group sing mostly in C & F & so, me being a real lazy so & so at heart, it'd make life nice & easy for me & I could then play along without any effort.

 

Cheers

Ptarmi

[Ken_Coles]

We've had similar debates many times here. I tend to feel that more than a semitone or two (going down to F/C would be three semitones) can be an awful lot in terms of weakening the reeds. OTOH, a lot of folks here (including at least one maker) are adamant that concertinas should be useful and used, even if that requires retuning. This debate is more vociferous in the case of a Jeffries or Linota. With a Lachenal, maybe you should try it, I dunno. Me, I'd be more tempted to just get one made by an accordion-reed-concertina maker, but that's just me.

 

Whatever you do, keep playin'

Ken

[Theo]

I wouldn't like to retune the reeds that far, even going down a semitone has to be done with great care. It might be possible to do the conversion my moving reeds round, loosing a few of the highest, and fitting a few new low reeds, but I've not mapped out how the change might work, or how many new reeds would be needed.

[Lawrence Reeves]

A Bb/ F would be very friendly in those keys, and would be a lot more readily available. It would feel to upu like playing in D and G on a C/G instrument. You would also be able to play with flat pipes, or recordings such as Gearóid ÓhÁllmhuráin discs.

Just my two cents worth, that I would prefer a traditionally reeded instrument in that key.

[meltzer]

Sorry if I'm being a bit obtuse, but is the OP talking about a retune to C/F so that the rows are a 4th apart, like on a C/F melodeon (low C, high F)? As much as I can see the appeal of this (as a melodeon player), surely this would entail a complete rethink on the third row, too?

[Ptarmigan]

A Bb/ F would be very friendly in those keys, and would be a lot more readily available. It would feel to upu like playing in D and G on a C/G instrument. You would also be able to play with flat pipes, or recordings such as Gearóid ÓhÁllmhuráin discs.

 

Thanks Lawrence,

 

Yes, that is exactly what I want to be able to do.

 

So, with any luck, it might be much more practical too, to get my Lachenal retuned to Bb/F.

 

Cool.

 

Thanks for all the advice guys.

[Lawrence Reeves]

I think there may be a 20 key in need f work on ebay. Can't remember if it is uk, or us listing.

 

 

A Bb/ F would be very friendly in those keys, and would be a lot more readily available. It would feel to upu like playing in D and G on a C/G instrument. You would also be able to play with flat pipes, or recordings such as Gearóid ÓhÁllmhuráin discs.

 

Thanks Lawrence,

 

Yes, that is exactly what I want to be able to do.

 

So, with any luck, it might be much more practical too, to get my Lachenal retuned to Bb/F.

 

Cool.

 

Thanks for all the advice guys.

[Theo]

Thanks Lawrence,

 

Yes, that is exactly what I want to be able to do.

 

So, with any luck, it might be much more practical too, to get my Lachenal retuned to Bb/F.

 

It's a whole tone up then, there won't be much metal left on the high reeds if you have them all tuned up. There are Bb/F anglos around, it would be worth looking for something already in that tuning that you could do a trade with before you embark on heavy retuning.

[John Sylte]

Thanks Lawrence,

 

Yes, that is exactly what I want to be able to do.

 

So, with any luck, it might be much more practical too, to get my Lachenal retuned to Bb/F.

 

It's a whole tone up then, there won't be much metal left on the high reeds if you have them all tuned up. There are Bb/F anglos around, it would be worth looking for something already in that tuning that you could do a trade with before you embark on heavy retuning.

 

Hi There. I have been tuning up 20 button Lachenals from C/G to D/A and I imagine tuning down to Bb/F would be just as easy. I swap reeds as much as possible (I have a collection of extras/spares), and when inevitable I apply sparing amounts of solder to reed ends before retuning them so as not to compromise the stability of the reed tongues (especially the small ones). I personally think the 20 button Lachenals are great little boxes for just such a thing. I keep a 30 button C/G that I use for most tunes, and have another 20 button D/A box that I usually bring along for playing old time tunes in D and A. I have a couple 20 button Lachenals that are ready to be restored and retuned, a 26 button Lachenal ready to be retuned, and a couple 30 button Lachenals that are also ready to be retuned... If you are interested in such a box, let me know.

[Theo]

Hi There. I have been tuning up 20 button Lachenals from C/G to D/A and I imagine tuning down to Bb/F would be just as easy. I swap reeds as much as possible (I have a collection of extras/spares), and when inevitable I apply sparing amounts of solder to reed ends before retuning them so as not to compromise the stability of the reed tongues (especially the small ones).

 

I'm sure that is the best way to do it if you can't find a box in the tuning you want.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

I'm just wondering if an old Lachenal could be retuned from Ab/Eb { up or down ? } to C/F?

 

Would that be just too far to take the reeds?

 

 

Cheers

Ptarmi

 

 

I, personally, would not try to change an Ab/Eb to F/C (up or down) by tuning the installed reeds. The reeds are originally selected by size for each note value and optimum response and a change as above is not recommended.

Before any minor pitch or key (one or two semitones) change by tuning is contemplated, the instrument should be competently inspected to see if the reeds will stand the change. If the instrument is of considerable age, changes may have already been made which will obviously affect further work.

 

It is worth remembering that the ‘reedwork’ (reeds and reed pans) in a traditionally built instrument have always constituted the major portion of the price of a concertina therefore the cost of reversing any action that may not be successful will be considerable.

 

Note. Tuning, in the above, refers to removing by filing or adding by loading, the metal of the reed tongues.

 

Geoff

[Alan Day]

Tuning to GD would not be a million miles away from Ab /Eb and suitable for most of the sessions I go to.

Flattening would be an easier option to tune.I bow to Geoff's superior knowledge on this one however.

Al

[Ptarmigan]

Many thanks for all your interesting replies guys.

 

Plenty of food for thought there.

 

However, after reading them all, I'm convinced that what I really need is a Bb/F Concertina.

 

I am also convinced that I don't want to be guilty of mutilating this little 26 key Lachenal.

 

I agree that I should keep this as it was intended, as an Ab/Eb Concertina.

 

So I'm on the hunt now for a Bb/F Concertina.

 

Incidentally, can you tell much from the Lachenal serial number? ~ 183993

 

Cheers

Dick

[ben]

Hello Dick,

 

DO you have a digital photo of your concertina that you can post? Is this concertina wood ended or metal ended?

[Ptarmigan]

Hello Dick,

 

DO you have a digital photo of your concertina that you can post? Is this concertina wood ended or metal ended?

 

Hello Ben,

 

Yes indeed, here's a link to three photos of my Lachenal Ab/Eb Concertina:

 

http://community.webshots.com/album/566633307NMvDya

 

Cheers

Dick