Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Kerry

Can Any One Help With Some Info

Recommended Posts

We have just been left a concertina it came from my mother-in-law she was (in her younger days before getting married) in the salvation army.

 

The s/n 5290 from what I have read you can find out the date it was made, but where can I find that out.

We know nothing at all about the instrament we think it came from her father thats all we know. And my husband and his brothers can remember playing with it as children.

The concertina seems to be in good condition and still plays, it comes with its box but that has long since seen better days.

 

If any one could shed any more light we would be gratfull.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the URL:

 

http://www.horniman.info/DKNSARC/SD02/PAGE...ES/D2P0290S.HTM

 

Good luck

 

That is a very low number and would make it a very early instrument. Is that the number on one of the ends (opposite end to the maker label?). If not, it may be a bellows number. You may want to open it up and check if there is a number inside - perhaps on the reed pan).

Edited by Paul Read

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kerry,

 

This information is not generally available yet, though Bob Gaskins is working on digitizing those ledgers, for the Horniman Museum.

 

However, I have a set of photocopies, so I can tell you that Wheatstone s/n 5290 was sold to a Mr. Boyett (?) on 7th September 1853, for £8. 8s. 0d (8 guineas).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How did everyone decide that the mystery concertina was (a) made by Wheatstone, and (B) an English? How do you know that this is not a Lachenal Triumph made for the Salvation Army?

 

Recall that Lachenal made both Crane/Triumph Duets and Maccann Duets, each with (apparently) independent serial numbers beginning well below 5000.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Recall that Lachenal made both Crane/Triumph Duets and Maccann Duets, each with (apparently) independent serial numbers beginning well below 5000.

Well below is right. I have Maccanns 1271 and 1272, which are both highly developed instruments.

 

If they didn't start at 1, then I would guess they started no lower than 1000.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We have just been left a concertina...

Is there any chance you could post photos... or send some in email to one of us, who could post them?

 

One question is what kind of concertina. I, too, think it's most likely some kind of "duet". It's held by fitting the hand between a support bar and leather strap on each side, yes? Is the array of buttons 5 rows wide, or 6?

 

It should also have a maker's label on the side opposite the serial number. I'm betting it says "Lachenal", though it might say "The Triumph", with "Lachenal & Co." in smaller letters underneath.

 

Are the ends metal, or wooden? Are they 6- or 12-sided? How many buttons does it have?

 

And the question many of us will want to know... are you planning to sell it, or would you like to learn to play it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How did everyone decide that the mystery concertina was (a) made by Wheatstone, and (B ) an English?  How do you know that this is not a Lachenal Triumph made for the Salvation Army?

I replied directly to the question at the top of the page (which seems to have gone unnoticed ?), which is the title of the Topic :

 

"Can Any One Help With Some Info, Wheatstone concertina 48 key s/n 5290"

 

Assuming that it is indeed by Wheatstone, as Kerry states, and given that serial number, then it has to be an English system, though nobody stated that.

 

 

Edited to remove errant smilie in Quote.

Edited by Stephen Chambers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The s/n 5290 from what I have read you can find out the date it was made, but where can I find that out.

Wes Williams' concertina dating page is here.

 

As Wes says, the details are largely speculative. In fact, he assumes one common set of serial numbers for both Maccann and Triumph (Crane) duets, while some of us think that there were two separate runs of serial numbers.

 

The table indicates that your instrument was made in 1934, and even if that's off by a year or few, it's clear that it was made during the last few years of the Lachenal company's existence.

 

(Being a believer in the separate-runs theory of duet serial numbers, I'll also bet that the concertina is a Triumph duet, because I don't think the Maccann serial numbers ever reached 5000. ;) )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is everbody assuming that it has to be a Lachenal duet of some kind ?

 

The owner has already stated that it is a Wheatstone.

 

The Salvation Army have used a lot more English-system concertinas than Triumph (Crane) duets, though the last Salvationist concertina player I saw had a Maccann duet (marching down my street, in Leyton, East London, about 20 years ago). Mind you, historically they seem to have used more anglos than all the other systems put together !

 

Kerry, do we have you thoroughly confused by now ?

 

Edited to add more info.

Edited by Stephen Chambers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why is everbody assuming that it has to be a Lachenal duet of some kind ?

 

The owner has already stated that it is a Wheatstone.

Ouch! You're right! :o

 

I missed it, because it's not in the body of the message, only in the secondary part of the subject line (something I obviously didn't pay enough attention to).

 

Yes, it is stated that it's a Wheatstone. Also that it's "48 key", something else I foolishly asked about.

That would certainly make it an English. (Though there are 48-button Cranes, the Crane system hadn't yet been invented when Wheatstone issued that serial number.)

 

Sorry about introducing the confusion. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

to everyone that has tried to help and thanks. I had better answer some of the questions you have asked.

 

1) It is a 6 sided Wheatstone 48 key. The lable at one end reads C Wheatstone & co Inventors, Patentees. Manufactures. 15 West St, Charing XR. London WC.

 

2) The s/n 5290 is on the opposite end.

 

3) Both ends of the concertina are made of what looks to me like Rose wood wich is fretworked. the keys are arranged in 4 rows.

 

4) The bellows have a very nice pattern on them and they are a four bellow system I think.

 

I hope this has helped. Untill my husband brought this concertina home, I had never seen it. But I liked what I saw and wanted to learn more about it.

 

I have posed 3 photos for you look at

 

The Family want to sell the concertina but I want to hang on to it and keep it in the family. I have know idea how much it would be worth if we did sell.

post-9-1078136341.jpg

Edited by Kerry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kerry,

 

That certainly looks like an 1850's Wheatstone English system concertina that (with brass reeds) would have sold for 8 guineas !

 

As I said, it was originally sold to a Mr. Boyett (at least that is what it looks like !), on 7th September, 1853.

 

It was a relatively expensive model at the time, with its gold-tooled bellows, fancy papers (this is sometimes described as the "Patent-bellows model", because one of the bellows papers is usually printed "C. Wheatstone & Co., Inventors & Patentees"), inlaid corners and silver buttons.

 

The original label of your concertina would have had Wheatstone's old address, 20, Conduit Street, Regent Street, but the instrument has evidently been back to the firm in later years (for tuning, repairs etc.) and had its label replaced in the process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have posed 3 photos for you look at

Lovely. And it looks to be in excellent condition, too.

 

The Family want to sell the concertina but I want to hang on to it and keep it in the family.

Good for you. Will you learn to play it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

>Wes Williams' concertina dating page is here.

No, my summary of what information was available to me at the time (2000/2001) is there. Its now vastly out of date. Anybody else wish to rewrite it? I don't really wish to, because of the amount of misquoting and assumptions that are attributed to me through it, as Jim's post demonstrates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all

many thanks to every one that has given info on my our concertina, also thank you to those of you who e-mailed me.

 

I have taken it to a collector to have look at it, and he confermend what I had found out from you.

He opened it up to look inside and found one of the reads missing a couple had been replaced with steel reads the rest where brass.

There is a small amount of damage to the belows and a crude atempt at repair on the inside. the concertina does play but not intune (mind you I can sing but not intune and I am a lot younger). :D

Any way he offord me £225 for it as it is, but I dont think we will sell it, it has been in the family a long time.

Thanks again for your help and if you do come up with any more info I would be pleased to hear it.

Edited by Kerry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Recall that Lachenal made both Crane/Triumph Duets and Maccann Duets, each with (apparently) independent serial numbers beginning well below 5000.
Well below is right. I have Maccanns 1271 and 1272, which are both highly developed instruments.

 

If they didn't start at 1, then I would guess they started no lower than 1000.

I've got number 31. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Recall that Lachenal made both Crane/Triumph Duets and Maccann Duets, each with (apparently) independent serial numbers beginning well below 5000.
Well below is right. I have Maccanns 1271 and 1272, which are both highly developed instruments.

 

If they didn't start at 1, then I would guess they started no lower than 1000.

I've got number 31. :)

.. and my first ever concertina is Lachenal Maccann number 689 :) Guess again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And if you wondered why I complained about misquoting my summary just look at this!.

 

lachenal english concertina no 4138 35button...

 

.. this concertina is obviously used ,having being built in1860.

 

36 years before it had been invented?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...