Dirge Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 My Aeola has developed a sticky pad board. You can feel the pads unsticking from the board as you press a button and I suspect various valves of less than perfect performance for the same reason. I couldn't think of a time when I had been playing it in a 'thick' environment, (I'm reasonably careful) and can't understand where this has come from. My impression is that it is all the notes, not just the most used, and it is definitely the pads gluing themselves down, because I took the end off and checked. The pads were renewed by Mike Acott recently so I'm sure they're not the problem. He hadn't come across this before, but suggested gentle application of talc to take the tack off. That worked fine. Now, just returned from a trip to England, (equals round the world!) I find it's come back again. How can a 24 hour air flight have induced this? I know the talc treatment will work, I just wondered if anyone had any theories about what is causing it. The padboards don't look grubby, incidentally. It's almost as if there's something oozing out of the wood, although there's nothing to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdormire Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 How can a 24 hour air flight have induced this? Gremlins. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 How can a 24 hour air flight have induced this? Gremlins. Alan I did wonder if the lower than normal air pressure in an aeroplane might result in something being sucked up from inside the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I've had this problem with pads, and it was caused by the type of leather I'd used in making the pads. Changed back to my usual leather on a fresh set of pads and the problem disappeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Prebble Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I've had this problem with pads, and it was caused by the type of leather I'd used in making the pads. Changed back to my usual leather on a fresh set of pads and the problem disappeared. I had the same problem on one I repaired last year. That had been repadded a few years ago and the problem there was some sort of rubbery/placticky synthetic glue used in making the pads. I suspect it was one of the aerosol type fabric glues. Anyway, the glue had started to 'break down' and was bleeding through to the face of the pads. I stripped the pads, wiped the board clean with white spirit and then meths, gave it a dusting of french ckalk and repadded the instrument. Jobs a good'un ! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Johnson Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 The pads were renewed by Mike Acott recently so I'm sure they're not the problem. Interesting how an important clue can be so easily discounted. Not a reflection on Mike's work or the writer's intelligence, only on human nature. Leathers very often have surface treatments and coatings, oils etc. that can get sticky. Shiny surfaces are usually coated surfaces. Many modern adhesives ( and some old fashioned ones ) degrade in contact with the oils that are usually part of the manufacture of the majority of leathers that help keep them pliable. A glue that may work well for years with a leather with little or no oil in it may degrade and penetrate the porous leather with a higher oil content as mentioned by Dave. Leather with oils in it doesn't feel oily until the content gets fairly high. Coated leathers often get sticky on their own, but unless they are left in close contact with some other surface for a while, the stickiness doesn't have time to start to bond and you don't notice it. This is especially true of the vinyl coated leathers where the plasticizers in the vinyl can make it tacky. Just another example of the complications of concertina making. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stella24 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) sometimes the pad face is the cut side and on others the hair side, sometimes mixed if only some replaced. maybe to avoid this problem, just use the cut or flesh side of leather? btw, isn't my new bunny avatar the cutest!! we play together in the evenings, and have been getting on rather famously. i found him playing in a ragtag gypsy band (horrible dissonant stuff hope you never have to hear it), pulled him out of the briar patch cleaned him up and introduced him to irishtrad! he is eternally grateful to me for it, as well he should be. maybe you'll hear him one day; he squeezes a mean box for a bunny! Edited September 1, 2008 by stella24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 (edited) Hi Not to change the subject matter too much...but all this explains why my pleather leisure suit became unwearable after only a few months and 3 or 4 formal only events. R Edited September 1, 2008 by richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stella24 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 All this time i thought that the highly contrasting stitch and wonderful design of your suit would have kept it from sticking to itself, yourself. maybe you should try an extra heavy dusting of gold bold talc as mentioned in the previous posts before giving up on it, and wear it to your next formal only. At least you wouldn't stick to anyone else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Betsy Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I started having the same problem with my little beast, mainly on the lower register F# key. I wondered if it could be the horrendous humidity we're having here in Kentucky at the moment, so . . . I had some of those silicone grain moisture absorber packs and I packed the beast up with some of those and by morning -- BINGO! No more sticking! So if you are in a place where the humidity is hanging around 99% (Try that with 95 deg. F. today as well ) it could be moisture causing the sticking. peace & blessings, Miss Betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 Well I suppose it HAS just had 6 weeks of 'typical English summer'.....Napier isn't that humid. I'm coming to think this particular instrument is just 'difficult'. It seems to look for reasons to play below par. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 'typical English summer' It's official. Since records were kept on sunshine hours (1929), the UK has just experienced the dullest August. Didn't bring the weather back with you, by any chance? Today; it's raining. We could have done with this, yesterday, when my neighbour's house caught fire. Luckily, I was at home; called the Fire Brigade, marshalled concertinas for potential evacuation in case the fire spread, left the house and checked whether the house the other side of the fire was occupied. Guess I got the priorities almost right. Damage could have been much worse, but the Fire Brigade arrived in about five minutes. Regards, Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 I know it was supposed to be horrid but it just seemed like a fairly normal example of what I escaped from! I have a sort of 'Sound Of Music' vision of your concertinas 'marshalled for evacuation'; all standing in a line with their little shoes polished, but I do understand; whenever they do the safety lecture on an aeroplane I sit there working out how my concertina is going to be the one exception to the rule that you mustn't take your baggage with you in an emergency. (I usually decide that 'I don't get off without it' will work) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterT Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I have a sort of 'Sound Of Music' vision of your concertinas 'marshalled for evacuation'; all standing in a line with their little shoes polished, but I do understand; whenever they do the safety lecture on an aeroplane I sit there working out how my concertina is going to be the one exception to the rule that you mustn't take your baggage with you in an emergency. (I usually decide that 'I don't get off without it' will work) Maybe one day, I'll film the video ...... "The Sound of Concertinas". Can't afford shoes for them as well. One has to make sacrifices, you know! Actually, they were dumped in a pile, in case the Fire Brigade needed access through my house. They didn't ..... two kicks, and my neighbour's front door was kicked in! Back in the days when I used to work for a living, and was based in Scotland for 3+ years, I used to shuttle between Scotland and Croydon for business trips etc. As I had the money (then) I invested in additional instruments so that all I had to do was jump on the plane and arrive the other end. I do remember, however, taking a concertina on a flight to Paris in order to play a "floor spot" at a London Folk Club on my return, since I would not have time to collect it from my Croydon base. You might have gather that I used to plan for a living (Nestlé UK Ltd). Regards, Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 The pads were renewed by Mike Acott recently so I'm sure they're not the problem. Interesting how an important clue can be so easily discounted. Not a reflection on Mike's work or the writer's intelligence, only on human nature. Leathers very often have surface treatments and coatings, oils etc. that can get sticky. Shiny surfaces are usually coated surfaces. Many modern adhesives ( and some old fashioned ones ) degrade in contact with the oils that are usually part of the manufacture of the majority of leathers that help keep them pliable. A glue that may work well for years with a leather with little or no oil in it may degrade and penetrate the porous leather with a higher oil content as mentioned by Dave. Leather with oils in it doesn't feel oily until the content gets fairly high. Coated leathers often get sticky on their own, but unless they are left in close contact with some other surface for a while, the stickiness doesn't have time to start to bond and you don't notice it. This is especially true of the vinyl coated leathers where the plasticizers in the vinyl can make it tacky. Just another example of the complications of concertina making. Dana Dana, if the problem is affecting both the pads (held in place by spring pressure so more vulnerable), and now some valves (a different type and probably supply of leather) its got to be some treatment in the wood thats leaching out. I would try a de-greasing of the wood as suggested earlier, Dirge could try a local swabbing with acetone or similar. ps acetone and sparks/ vapor pressure don't mix, booooooooooooooooooooom. Dave E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted September 5, 2008 Author Share Posted September 5, 2008 if the problem is affecting both the pads (held in place by spring pressure so more vulnerable), and now some valves (a different type and probably supply of leather) its got to be some treatment in the wood thats leaching out. I would try a de-greasing of the wood as suggested earlier, Dirge could try a local swabbing with acetone or similar. ps acetone and sparks/ vapor pressure don't mix, booooooooooooooooooooom. Dave E The valves comment is less than scientific, in the '...and I think the bl**dy valves are bl**dy sticking too, blasted thing.' mode. I like the smell of acetone, but I'll redo the talk treatment first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dunk Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 I'll redo the talk treatment first. I reckon talc would be better. I rate talking to valves and pads about the same as hugging trees, it's more about your hang ups than theirs ... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted September 6, 2008 Author Share Posted September 6, 2008 I'll redo the talk treatment first. I reckon talc would be better. I rate talking to valves and pads about the same as hugging trees, it's more about your hang ups than theirs ... :lol: Grief! Sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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