m3838 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I gotta say...and I don't mean to be disrespectful...but this made me laugh quite heartily this morning! m3838: were you never a child?! Why do you suppose there are a gazillion guitars, for example, in the world...and you can get a decent one for $100? (hint: image) I gotta say...and I don't mean to be disrespectful...but this made me think you are unable to hold on to the topic of discussion and ready to replace subject at will. Do you even remember what we were sparring for? To pubpersona: We are discussing concertinas, NOT guitars. Before CC's instruments there were NO decent beginners' instruments, unlike in the world of guitars. But even with guitars, I hope you didn't mean that having a choice between a junk at $50 and a solid instrument at $75 you would have chosen junk. (for those, who are unable to grasp) Jackie/Rochelle at $350 is equivalent to $20 Hilo Ukulele, $100 Chinese guitar, $700 Weltmeister diatonic accordion. Scarlatti at $278 (150 pounds) is equal to $20 Lanikai Ukulele and $25 Toy child's guitar from Toy store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) Jackie/Rochelle at $350 is equivalent to $20 Hilo Ukulele, $100 Chinese guitar ... Scarlatti at $278 (150 pounds) is equal to $20 Lanikai Ukulele and $25 Toy child's guitar from Toy store. We are discussing concertinas, NOT guitars. Could've fooled me! Edited August 25, 2008 by Stephen Chambers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catty Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) m3838- With your broad statements invoking widely disparate subjects ($4,000 pianos, French lessons, acrobatics, etc.), I presumed the topic of discussion ("lesser instruments" and pedagogy) could be applied generally. Further, I have no doubt that there are many such cases of exactly that (selection based largely on appearance) with concertinas as well, albeit, probably far less frequently than with most other instrument families. A Lanakai uke is worlds apart from a toy child's instrument--not much basis for comparison. $100 Chinese-made guitars range from terrible to quite good--no "rule" may be reliably applied (not that many, if any, retail for $100 to my knowledge, but I own several that I acquired used for ~$100). Typically, a Lanakai uke (which normally retail for ~$100, btw) will be far superior to an equivalently priced "Chinese guitar." Edited August 25, 2008 by catty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 My latest attempt no buzzing The more I play the quieter the buzz. lol! Looks like you're having fun - good for you! As it seems that everybody is offering you advice I thought I'd give you some that's served me well which seems relevant & which was given to me by a very fine player.... Ignore people who set you schedules saying you should do this or that at a particular stage of learning & don't set yourself such schedules as you'll just turn a passion into a chore. Just find your own way, taking advice that makes sense to you and ignoring the rest, and have fun exploring the instrument in your own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Ignore people who set you schedules It seems to me that a schedule gives sence of urgency, and makes you go from event to event, rather than just floating in the middle of nowhere. It probably is a good practice to set some goals and take regular exams, or little performances to a group of well wishing, but onest friends. The biggest blunder that may be is spending time to learn the darn thing, only to realize few years later, that all your playing shows lots of work, but very little flight. Detecting it earlier may help with change of repertore, instrument, style, way of practicing etc. And it's just fun to realize that it's been X amount of time and you learned Y number of tunes, performed to people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) With your broad statements invoking widely disparate subjects ($4,000 pianos, French lessons, acrobatics, etc.), I presumed the topic of discussion ("lesser instruments" and pedagogy) could be applied generally. That you got right, however one of the issues is having two instruments side by side, one junk, one good, one red, one black. And you state that a player to be will do wisely, choosing red junk over black good. To your logic, if one likes the appearance of barely playable instrument, one would fair better than with well working, but less attractive instrument. I'm saying it's not true, never ever happened. Give me one provable example of such foolisnness. Guitars and pianos don't compare with Concertinas. First are mass produced, latter are custom made. More expencive bottom line concertina is bigger piece of junk, than less expencive bottom line guitar. You can take junk balalaika and fix it up to been quite playable, though not sounding too well. You CAN'T fix Scarlatti concertina to play half like Rochelle, which IS a real bottom line instrument. Your argument centers on good manners, mine on good advice, based on frustrating experience. And in my view, good manners resulting in somebody else's misery, are actually very bad manners. But I'm tired of this useless stand-off, I'm busy looking for sound files for Menuets by J.B. de Boismortier. Edited August 25, 2008 by m3838 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Ignore people who set you schedules It seems to me that a schedule gives sence of urgency, and makes you go from event to event, rather than just floating in the middle of nowhere. It probably is a good practice to set some goals and take regular exams, or little performances to a group of well wishing, but onest friends. The biggest blunder that may be is spending time to learn the darn thing, only to realize few years later, that all your playing shows lots of work, but very little flight. Detecting it earlier may help with change of repertore, instrument, style, way of practicing etc. Goals can be useful, but arbitrary schedules???? And it's just fun to realize that it's been X amount of time and you learned Y number of tunes, performed to people. It's fun Jim, but not as we know it. <yawn> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Your argument centers on good manners, mine on good advice, based on frustrating experience. Somebody posts on C.net for advice. They receive advice. They make their own decision. Any problems are not your problems. Any costs are not your costs. Seems to me that the real argument is about whether you should show courtesy & respect regardless of whether you personally agree with their choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) Misha, You're making some very sweeping and highly derogatory statements about Scarlatti concertinas, without giving any indication that you've ever even seen one in the flesh - and they're not red! In fact I've already directly asked you twice if you've played one, but you haven't responded... I can only conclude that your opinion has no foundation and is based on nothing but prejudice. Edited August 25, 2008 by Stephen Chambers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catty Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 To your logic, if one likes the appearance of barely playable instrument, one would fair better than with well working, but less attractive instrument. ..huh? That's quite the leap, there, bud. I think I've ridden this pony about as far as it's going to go.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catty Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) double post Edited August 25, 2008 by catty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catty Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) Give me one provable example of such foolisnness. Woops...I guess I'm not through yet. I, myself, am such an example: I purchase said "lesser instrument" (Hohner D40) on a whim from a pawnshop for $100--the only one in town, that I'm aware of. I learn to play, and use it to entertain regularly to this day. Its had hundreds of hours of use as I used it extensively during my tenure as full-time hospice musician (1.5 years). It holds up just fine--action is mushy but consistent and reliable, and is still in tune. Don't know that the Hohner is appreciably better than the object of your ire (Scarlatti?), but I would have learned on anything that had buttons and squeaked if that's all that was available to me. I presume that there are hundreds if not thousands of such examples. Here's my "formula": 1) get thee an instrument as soon as possible; 2) play; 3) if instrument does not perform adequately, get thee another; 4) buy used; 5) avoid people who dis an instrument that makes you happy or motivates you to play Edited August 25, 2008 by catty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 5) avoid people who dis an instrument that makes you happy or motivates you to play amen to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Goals can be useful, but arbitrary schedules???? I meant goals. I agree, arbitrary schedules are nonsence, but reasonable goal is not much different from reasonable schedule. And the only way to set reasonable goal is to set any goal and try to reach it. If you can't hit the deadline, move it, but if you move them too much, there is no reason to set one. It's fun Jim, but not as we know it. <yawn> Didn't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 You're making some very sweeping and highly derogatory statements about Scarlatti concertinas, without giving any indication that you've ever even seen one in the flesh - and they're not red! Yes, yes, I played one, in red celluloid finish, at Kimric's accordions in Oakland a few years ago. Like here. (But I haven't said they are red, btw. Those A and B instruments are not necessarily Scarlatti concertinas). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Seems to me that the real argument is about whether you should show courtesy & respect regardless of whether you personally agree with their choice. Certainly! No disagreements here. By some strange reason MY advice sparked some lively disagreement. It looks like when somebody says "Hero accordions are bad", it's unacceptable on a premice, that somebody may have them as "their" instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 You're making some very sweeping and highly derogatory statements about Scarlatti concertinas, without giving any indication that you've ever even seen one in the flesh - and they're not red! Yes, yes, I played one, in red celluloid finish, at Kimric's accordions in Oakland a few years ago. Like here. But nobody else is talking about the red celluloid one, and that isn't what Lady D has bought! What she has is the much nicer one with wooden ends. But I haven't said they are red, btw. But you just said it was... Those A and B instruments are not necessarily Scarlatti concertinas. And the Pope isn't necessarily a Catholic... So it's just pure coincidence that the Rochelle is black, and the Scarlatti you saw was red? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catty Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 (edited) Seems to me that the real argument is about whether you should show courtesy & respect regardless of whether you personally agree with their choice. Certainly! No disagreements here. By some strange reason MY advice sparked some lively disagreement. It looks like when somebody says "Hero accordions are bad", it's unacceptable on a premice, that somebody may have them as "their" instrument. (laughing out loud). Do you really not have a clue?..or are you just being coy? (I'm hoping you're doing research to formulate a reply for me, too. ) Let me be succinct: your "good advice" is lost beneath your brash and authoritative demeanor, which trumps whatever good intentions you may possess toward the newbie seeking advice. Edited August 26, 2008 by catty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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