Survey Results Now Posted

[allan atlas]

FOLKS: please note that the data for the CSFRI survey is NOW POSTED

 

 

PLEASE GO TO: http://web.gc.cuny.edu/freereed scroll down the left-hand bar to the proper link and click away. . . . .

 

please note that the formatting is sometimes a bit messy. . . . .i'm still learning how to use FrontPage............

 

hope everyone finds the results interesting...................allan

Edited February 27, 2004 by allan atlas

[Richard Morse]

I noticed that my submission didn't seem to be included as there were "no reponses from Massachusetts" players..... Very strange!

[allan atlas]

RICHARD AND FOLKS: Richard is the second person to notify me that his/her response was not included. . . . . .the person knew that because his/her geographical location was not included. . . . . . . .i have no idea what might have happened. . . . . . .i have no idea how many responses might have gotten lost. . . . .until this afternoon i had no reason to believe that anything had gotten lost. . . . . . . .let's hope that it wasn't too many. . . . . . . .(i know that the Graduate Center server was on the fritz for a while in late december. . . .perhaps some responses transmitted electronically got lost. . . . . .i just don't know). . . . . .

 

as i pointed out to the first person who notified me about the matter. . . . . . .i did not see any of the responses at all. . . . . . .they were downloaded (or opened if they arrived in hardcopy) by either one of two people in our music office. . . . . . . .the ID tags were immediately removed. . . . . . . .they were then handed over to the person who collated the data. . . . . . . .when this was completed, i received a copy of the questionnaire with the numbers (and other comments) on it. . . . . . . .

 

i too was surprised by the lack of responses from Massachusetts. . . . . . . . .thus the quip about the boycott. . . . . . . .

 

at any rate, the data posted represents what i (personally) received. . . . . . .and we can treat it for what it is or isn't worth. . . . . . .

 

in the end, i do think it's interesting. . . . .and says something about that hypothetical/typical concertina player. . . . . .indeed, it will be interesting to see what people have to say about the data. . . . . . . .Allan

[Guest]

in the end, i do think it's interesting. . . . .and says something about that hypothetical/typical concertina player. . . . . .indeed, it will be interesting to see what people have to say about the data. . . . . . . .Allan

I think the data is very interesting; however in many questions I felt I was the "odd one out" as I found I didn't fit into many of the answer categories given, and would have liked to see more answer options

 

Also I stated on my copy of the survey, I was concerned with some of the general assumptions made in the survey.

 

For example:

 

Question 5. Education (please indicate highest level attained)

 

a. high-school diploma

b. university/college B.A.

c. advanced graduate level

 

The three options given made the assumption that all concertina attained their high-school dliploma (or HSC/VCE if you live in Australia) and automatically excludes anyone who didn't finish high school, or who obtained qualifications through an apprenticeship or trade school.

 

I would have liked to see a fourth "d. Other" option included for this question.

 

In the General Music Background section: "Question 1 Ability to Read Music", I would have liked to see the ability to read Tenor Clef also as an option as instruments such as the cello read mostly Bass Clef and then Tenor clef, with Treble clef as an excetion rather than the rule.

 

Overall I think the survey was a great start, but for reasons stated above, doesn't provide a true picture of the respondents.

 

I do applaud the time and effort that has gone into the survey, and would like to see the reserach continue. Keep up the good work!

 

Cheers

Morgana

Edited February 27, 2004 by Morgana

[allan atlas]

DEAR MORGANA: you are quite right about the wrong-headed assumption having to do with educational levels attained. . . . . .that was in fact a real oversight. . . . .a rather obvious result of my never having put together a survey-questionnaire of this type. . . . .perhaps we should have had eight or ten people read through it instead of the three that we did have. . . . . .

 

as for the ability to read tenor clef. . . . . . .i'm not quite sure that that's all that important. . . . . . . yes, the cello sometimes does go up there. . . . . .as does the bassoon on occasion. . . . . . .but i think the fundamental thing that i was after was could the respondent read music, read the bass clef (necessary for so much music), read a piano score, and read an orchestral score. . . . . .in the end, think that those categories are far more meaningful than that having to do with the tenor clef. . . . . . . (unless, of course, one is going to read through editions of Bach cantatas and stuff that retain the original clefs). . . . . .

 

at any rate, i do appreciate your kind words. . . . . . .note, though, that any further surveys will have to come from someone else...............Allan

[David Barnert]

Three responses from Hayden players and Rich wasn't counted? Interesting. Since the respondants were overwhelmingly from this forum, my guess is it was me, Jax, and Paul E.

 

BTW, here's a link to the survey that saves a scroll and a click.

[JimLucas]

Hmm. Looks like my response is also missing. (Country=Denmark; multiple instruments including Crane duet).

 

Allan, since you didn't note anything about responses-vs.-rankings for concertina type -- and since the total number for question 0. was the same as the reported total number of responders, -- it would seem that none of the included responses were from individuals who play more than one type of concertina. I know there are quite a few of us on Concertina.net who do, so I wonder why none are represented. Just for fun, I think I'll set up a poll here.

[JimLucas]

...i do think it's interesting. . . . .and says something about that hypothetical/typical concertina player. . . . . .indeed, it will be interesting to see what people have to say about the data. . .

I do think the results contain some very interesting stuff. However, I don't think they say much about "that hypothetical/typical concertina player", for various reasons.

 

First, more than one group is clearly under- or even un-represented:

...No responses from South Africa and only 3 from Ireland, yet these are two countries with significant and distinctive communities of concertina players. None at all from continental Europe, though there are enough players in Germany to more than fill an annual weekend, and I have personally met or communicated with more than 40 from more than 10 other continental European countries, ranging from spare-time diddlers to Irish-anglo fanatics to professionals in the separate venues of stage and street. Australia has enough concertina players to have supported its own concertina magazine for many years and it currently has at least one concertina maker, yet there was only one response from there.

...No responses from Crane duet players? I can quickly think of 10 known to me personally, not counting myself or those who might have been with me in classes at Witney. Hayden duet players, on the other hand, seem proportionaly overrepresented. Overall, there certainly aren't 3 Hayden players (4 if you include Rich Morse's missing response) for every 4 Maccann players.

...With these obvious anomalies, can we really trust any of the other results to be statistically meaningful in a broad sense? No. But there are certainly plenty of individual details to stimulate one's curiosity.

 

I think it's clear that the majority of concertina players didn't respond to the survey. To be fair, most of them probably didn't even know about it. I don't know what publicity it got, if any, beyond Concertina.net, the ICA, and the CSFRI web site. It's worth noting, though, that with about 300 members in the ICA and more than 450 on Concertina.net, most of them (even allowing for overlap) didn't respond. Unfortunately, the survey itself can't possibly tell us either why or whether this fact correlates with any item(s) in the survey questions.

 

There were some questions that effectively excluded some valid answers, even "other". Morgana mentioned education, but the question about playing another instrument limits the response to one other instrument. Many people play several, but how to indicate that? And what about "other" concertinas? Not just bandoneons and Chemnitzers, but rare or custom layouts like the Pitt-Talor duet, Linton, Wheatstone "double", or the intriguing "duet" pictured on Andy Norman's web site.

 

Finally, I think the questions themselves provide us with a better picture of the interests and knowledge of those who prepared the survey than of the concertina "community" as a whole. As I'm sure Allan would admit, he knows more about the English concertina and those who play it than about anglos. There was no category for anglos with more than 20 and less than 30 buttons, nor any question regarding different anglo layouts. An assumption that people who read bass clef must read it "as well as" the treble clef, not only bass clef. And no acknowledgement that some people read music in abc notation, but not "standard" notation. There's a question about the size of one's CD collection... but what about my hundreds of casettes, LP's, and even 78's? "How long have you been playing the concertina?", "At what age did you begin?", and "Residence" (presumably, "Where do you live now?"), but no "Where did you live when you started playing concertina?" or "Where did you first encounter the concertina?" Or "If you would describe yourself as being something less than an advanced player, would you consider beginning/resuming formal instruction with a teacher if it were convenient to do so?" An implicit assumption that advanced players wouldn't take lessons from other advanced players? I would.

 

So there it is. A wonderful collection of interesting information. It can't really tell us how any particular character is distributed over the world's entire population of concertina players. Due to incomplete responses, on many (most?) questions we can't even be sure how they're distributed over all responders. But who cares? It's fun reading!

[allan atlas]

JIM AND FOLKS: i agree: the poll is anything BUT scientific. . . . .it's a beginning. . . .nothing more, nothing less. . . . . . .worth following up on?. . . .that's for others to decide. . . . . .and to follow up on if they deem it worthwhile. . . . .what happened to what seems to be missing responses. . . . .i have no idea, other than that the Grad Center server was up and down in december. . . . .perhaps responses are floating around somewhere out there. . . . . . . . .as for the small number of responses (even allowing for those that got lost): that was beyond our control. . . . . . . . and indeed, concertina.net was really the only place the survey was publicized. . . . . .i'm not sure that the ICA or CSFRI sites served to publicize it. . . . . . .i don't even have an idea of how many hits the CSFRI website gets. . . . . . . .as for the better questions that COULD have been asked. . . .as i said in my response to Morgana. . . . .i'm a RANK AMATEUR at this..................allan

[JimLucas]

. . .it's a beginning. . . .nothing more, nothing less. . . . . . .worth following up on?. . . .that's for others to decide. . .

My personal feeling is that it could be very interesting -- and maybe even worthwhile -- to do another survey, but only if it could be certain of getting much broader and deeper response. Unfortunately, I can't think of a good way to get that more comprenensive response with a budget of less than a million dollars. Sigh!

[Guest]

Alan wrote: as i said in my response to Morgana. . . . .i'm a RANK AMATEUR at this

And we really appreciate the time and effort you put into it.

 

Thanks again

 

Cheers

Morgana

[Helen]

I guess my response was lost because there did not seem to be a response from Ohio.

 

But it was fun reading and a very nice start.

 

Thanks for all your hard work.

 

Helen