Mystery Anglo

[martyn]

I have just aquired a metal ended anglo and I have no idea who the maker was.

 

The ends are inset, radial reedpans, rivetted action, 38-key C/G, steel reeds in brass frames with a bird call and cock crow, Jeffries style papers, strap screws screwed into threaded insert.

 

There is no makers name or serial number anywhere. my own feeling is it could be a Jones but I've never seen one like this before.

 

I'm hoping someone out there can tell me what it is.

 

Thanks for your help

 

Martyn

Edited June 25, 2008 by martyn

[Dave Rogers]

Could very well be one of the Crabbs that was made for a musical instrument dealers (no cartouche in the fretwork on the right hand side). It looks virtually identical to my 31 key Crabb that was supplied to Ball Beavons. Are you there, Geoffrey?

[Paul Read]

Did Crabb amke radial reed pans?

[Dave Rogers]

Did Crabb amke radial reed pans?

 

Ah, good point - I was misled by the similarity of the ends to my Crabb. One of the minority of Jones anglos to have radial reed pans, then?

[Stephen Chambers]

Did Crabb amke radial reed pans?

 

Ah, good point - I was misled by the similarity of the ends to my Crabb. One of the minority of Jones anglos to have radial reed pans, then?

It does have several similarities to Jones' work, including the gold tooling, and (in fact) many Jones Anglos have radial reed pans, but the action posts are the wrong shape for Jones (who used bell-shaped ones) and more like Crabb/Jeffries.

 

I wonder if it has a serial number, and (if so) what it looks like?

[martyn]

Did Crabb amke radial reed pans?

 

Ah, good point - I was misled by the similarity of the ends to my Crabb. One of the minority of Jones anglos to have radial reed pans, then?

It does have several similarities to Jones' work, including the gold tooling, and (in fact) many Jones Anglos have radial reed pans, but the action posts are the wrong shape for Jones (who used bell-shaped ones) and more like Crabb/Jeffries.

 

I wonder if it has a serial number, and (if so) what it looks like?

I've checked all over for a serial number but there isn't one. The only marks inside are L2 and R2.

If it was a Jones wouldn't it have the broad scale reeds?

 

I also wondered about it being a Shakespeare but I can't recall ever seeing one with inset ends or radial reedpans

 

Martyn

[Stephen Chambers]

I've checked all over for a serial number but there isn't one. The only marks inside are L2 and R2.

So it's number 2 of a batch...

 

But the lack of a serial number would seem to rule out both Crabb and Jones.

 

If it was a Jones wouldn't it have the broad scale reeds?

No, the Jones Anglos with radial pans have normal reeds, not the broad ones.

[martyn]

I've checked all over for a serial number but there isn't one. The only marks inside are L2 and R2.

So it's number 2 of a batch...

 

But the lack of a serial number would seem to rule out both Crabb and Jones.

 

If it was a Jones wouldn't it have the broad scale reeds?

No, the Jones Anglos with radial pans have normal reeds, not the broad ones.

It does seem to be a bit of an odd one this, nothing seems to add up. Is it possible it was made by someone who was a worker with one of the manufacturers? Did Crabb ever make any unbadged anglos with radial reedpans, or with inset ends? Did Jones ever use straight action posts because they were cheaper to produce? or did he possibly borrow a few from Crabb because the person that made them was off sick that day

Fascinating stuff.

 

Thanks for all your help on this one so far.

 

Martyn

[ben]

Re: "But the lack of a serial number would seem to rule out both Crabb and Jones".

 

Many Crabb concertinas made between 1933 and 1953 for South Africa did not have serial numbers and some indicated the H.Crabb and Son badge without the London address. This was done at the request of a musical company in Johannesburg (who bought Crabb concertinas directly from the Crabb family business) and who did not want individual South African customers to deal directly with H. Crabb and Son.

 

I believe that Geoff Crabb could share some insight on the concertina in question.

[Dave Rogers]

Re: "But the lack of a serial number would seem to rule out both Crabb and Jones".

 

Many Crabb concertinas made between 1933 and 1953 for South Africa did not have serial numbers and some indicated the H.Crabb and Son badge without the London address. This was done at the request of a musical company in Johannesburg (who bought Crabb concertinas directly from the Crabb family business) and who did not want individual South African customers to deal directly with H. Crabb and Son.

 

I believe that Geoff Crabb could share some insight on the concertina in question.

 

Indeed - Geoff has previously mentioned that many earlier Crabb instruments destined for other dealers only had a pencilled number inside and that this was often rubbed off by the recipients.

[Stephen Chambers]

Re: "But the lack of a serial number would seem to rule out both Crabb and Jones".

 

Many Crabb concertinas made between 1933 and 1953 for South Africa did not have serial numbers and some indicated the H.Crabb and Son badge without the London address. This was done at the request of a musical company in Johannesburg (who bought Crabb concertinas directly from the Crabb family business) and who did not want individual South African customers to deal directly with H. Crabb and Son.

 

I believe that Geoff Crabb could share some insight on the concertina in question.

Indeed - Geoff has previously mentioned that many earlier Crabb instruments destined for other dealers only had a pencilled number inside and that this was often rubbed off by the recipients.

That's why I was very careful to use the word "seem", but there is no dealer's stamp on this one...

 

Whilst Geoff seems not to be so categorical and to be looking for information himself on this, in that what he has said is:

 

A further 300 'un-numbered' instruments are recorded as made between Sept. 1889 - Nov. 1895. Most of these, I suspect, were made for dealers to sell on i.e. Jeffries, Ball Beavon, T Bostock and others, because these records show references to what look like invoice numbers. (No explanation available as yet). I also suspect that many were supplied without a name or pre-stamped with a dealers name.

But my own experience of "dealer" Crabb Anglos (including Ball Beavon, Pollitt's Peerless and T. Bostock) has been that they regularly do have 4-digit Crabb numbers, except for those made for Jeffries. Indeed I have beside me a T. Bostock numbered 1882 (which I showed to Geoff when he was here in Kilrush), as well as a Henry(?) Crabb instrument with an unstamped oval cartouche, which is numbered 8892. However, I do have another unstamped one, that looks like an early Jeffries and is probably by John Crabb, that has no serial number and only a pencilled R4 batch number - but it is in a florid script that looks nothing like the very plain lettering in Martyn's one.

 

Anyway, the fretwork on this one looks "wrong" to me for a Crabb, and the instrument was probably at least 50 years old at the period those instruments were made for South Africa - a time when Harry Crabb was producing a lot of inexpensive instruments for dealers, but even then, they usually do have a number.

 

If it is a Crabb, it's a very untypical one...

 

Geoff?

 

P.S. I forgot to mention that it appears to have an odd assortment of reeds.

Edited June 26, 2008 by Stephen Chambers

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Hi all,

To save time, I have not included quotes.

 

In reply to the original query, I haven't got a clue. . I have never seen another like it. I do not believe it to have been made in the Crabb workshop.

 

A couple of observations.

It seems that this instrument includes various attributes familiar to several other makers. So is this the work of yet another unknown maker? Or possibly could it be a hybrid built using parts supplied by the other makers?

The reed pan number could indicate either that this is the second of a batch of similar instruments (usual) or that this is the second instrument by this maker.

 

Martin- How are the metal tops attached?

 

Concerning Crabb instruments, all methods of construction/materials have been used at certain times or on individual concertinas.

 

Geoff.

[martyn]

Hi all,

To save time, I have not included quotes.

 

In reply to the original query, I haven't got a clue. . I have never seen another like it. I do not believe it to have been made in the Crabb workshop.

 

A couple of observations.

It seems that this instrument includes various attributes familiar to several other makers. So is this the work of yet another unknown maker? Or possibly could it be a hybrid built using parts supplied by the other makers?

The reed pan number could indicate either that this is the second of a batch of similar instruments (usual) or that this is the second instrument by this maker.

 

Martin- How are the metal tops attached?

 

Concerning Crabb instruments, all methods of construction/materials have been used at certain times or on individual concertinas.

 

Geoff.

Hello Geoff,

 

The metal ends are fixed by a small screw in three of the corners (one under the palm and one on either side).

The only other fixing is by the middle bushing board screw, which screws into the pad board. The opposite three corners are not fixed at all, which seems very odd to me.

 

Also the backs of the reeds are blued and not polished. I don't know if that helps.

 

Martyn

Edited June 28, 2008 by martyn

[Stephen Chambers]

It does have several similarities to Jones' work, including the gold tooling

And here's a picture of a Jones with that gold-tooling:

 

 

Though that may not signify much as I also have a Nickolds with the same design.