RustyH Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 (edited) I received my first concertina, an Anglo Rochelle, from Homewood about 3 weeks ago, and I've quite naturally been having a tremendous amount of fun. As I work 12 hour nights (7pm-7am), sitting alone on a ferry, I have ample time to learn (it's going verrrryy, slow). When up in the early afternoon, I get online and spend the hours before work reading everything I can here and on all the links. I was invited over to my friend's the other night as they had a friend and his wife visiting from the US, a prof in musical instruments, or some such, and they all wanted to see and hear the Rochelle. In the course of the evening the prof asked if I would like to see an old Wheatstone English that he knows is for sale ($800). The picture was a little blurry and showed the Wheatstone with it's box, but on first glimpse it looked fairly well used, most noticeable were the cracked leather thumb straps. So being new to this interest, and having a beginner's Anglo, I was less than enthusiastic. Three days went by, and it kept popping back into my mind, so I got my list of questions together and e-mailed them to the seller. It's Wheatstone #4851, which I spent yesterday looking through the ledgers, to find, and if I have it right, it sold March 5th, 1853 to a James Brown Esq., the selling date being VERY important as it's my wife's birthday (now how can she resist me making an offer... ) The seller is an instrument collector (selling his collection, mostly guitars and mandolins) and seems well qualified to give an opinion. He says it's tuned to A=440, the bellows are in excellent shape, all keys work, comes with the original rosewood box. Today, at my request, he sent additional photos, guess next I will phone and ask him to play it. My questions are these. Should I bother continuing on this quest, as I'm a beginner, learning on an Anglo, would it be too much to also try to learn an English? I know it's buyer beware, and I'm in early stages, is this a fair ball park price? I am attracted to the affordability, if it's in pretty fair working order, and would consider having it looked at and reconditioned if the work was minor (affordable). Edited June 11, 2008 by RustyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyH Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 Sorry for the double post, I can't see a way to delete one, maybe moderator will..... Wonder how that happened? Something I messed up for sure..... [Note from Ken: Two threads merged, duplicate of initial post taken out. Cheers.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Stout Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 My second concertina (the first was a stagi English) is similar to the one you are looking at: a rosewood Wheatstone with brass reeds dating from 1851. I'm quite fond of it. It is a very quiet, sweet instrument suitable for the parlor rather than the pub. It's bellows were a bit leaky when I got it and it needed some tuning (and while I was at it new valves and pads). Figure that sooner rather than later you might need to get similar work done on the one you are looking at. Mine has four fold bellows; this one has five, which is better. I paid a bit less than they are asking here plus about $600 for an overhaul. I think I got my money's worth. This one looks like it would need new thumb straps and a cleaning, but it still has its original spruce baffles. I've had both Button Box and Wim Wakker restore (very) old concertinas for me. I'd recommend either one; check the waiting list. That said-- an English concertina is a quite different beast to play than an anglo. I couldn't wrap my brain around the anglo, but I find English quite logical. Your mileage may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyH Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 My second concertina (the first was a stagi English) is similar to the one you are looking at: a rosewood Wheatstone with brass reeds dating from 1851. I'm quite fond of it. It is a very quiet, sweet instrument suitable for the parlor rather than the pub. It's bellows were a bit leaky when I got it and it needed some tuning (and while I was at it new valves and pads). Figure that sooner rather than later you might need to get similar work done on the one you are looking at. Mine has four fold bellows; this one has five, which is better. I paid a bit less than they are asking here plus about $600 for an overhaul. I think I got my money's worth. This one looks like it would need new thumb straps and a cleaning, but it still has its original spruce baffles. I've had both Button Box and Wim Wakker restore (very) old concertinas for me. I'd recommend either one; check the waiting list. That said-- an English concertina is a quite different beast to play than an anglo. I couldn't wrap my brain around the anglo, but I find English quite logical. Your mileage may vary. Thanks Larry, pubs are not in my future, mostly accompanying my wife on her fiddle in our home, so this sounds better all the time. I was just wondering if I was overloading myself, and if the asking price was reasonable (surprised after seeing so many selling off their first born on eBay, thought I would never be able to afford anything more than the Rochelle). As far as restoring it, well, if it became part of the family, I couldn't resist. Much like a loved pet, money might not be an object....sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 My second concertina (the first was a stagi English) is similar to the one you are looking at: a rosewood Wheatstone with brass reeds dating from 1851. I'm quite fond of it. It is a very quiet, sweet instrument suitable for the parlor rather than the pub. It's bellows were a bit leaky when I got it and it needed some tuning (and while I was at it new valves and pads). Figure that sooner rather than later you might need to get similar work done on the one you are looking at. Mine has four fold bellows; this one has five, which is better. I paid a bit less than they are asking here plus about $600 for an overhaul. I think I got my money's worth. This one looks like it would need new thumb straps and a cleaning, but it still has its original spruce baffles. I've had both Button Box and Wim Wakker restore (very) old concertinas for me. I'd recommend either one; check the waiting list. That said-- an English concertina is a quite different beast to play than an anglo. I couldn't wrap my brain around the anglo, but I find English quite logical. Your mileage may vary. 5 fold bellows may be an indication of a better instrument. Buffles is interesting, as they mellow the sound, but also may quiet it a bit, and brass reeds are quiet enough. I'm sure it'll be a better investment than Rochelle, as the prices for vintage instruments continue to rise. At least you may get your money worth, and Rochelle will lose 50% if you want to sell it. I didn't have any difficulties neither with Anglo, nor with English. And having tried Crane and Hayden, must say none of the concertina layouts are difficult to learn. English will naturally bring you to reading music, which is good, if you don't, and irrelevant, if you do already. With English you will NOT be able to play those automatic harmonies on the left side, but it's a good and bad thing. Good, because it will steer you away from Oom-pa style and force you to use more intelligent approach. Bad, because it will take time to learn, and some of the folk tunes really benefit from uplifting Oompa, but I personally never liked that Anglo-Concertina "Rrah-Rrrah" and sustained "chords" that sound pretty boldly and badly to me. I much rather like short stacatto chords and those can be used on the English as well. I'd say, if you have the money, go for it, it's a good price, and once you have vintage instrument - you'll be in a solid family. Grab it while you can, soon with these gas prices you may not be able to afford anything beyond Rochelle. How many lifes do you have? But check that it's airtight, or pay someone to make it airtight to avoid frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyH Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 Thanks m3838, I am finally starting to attempt to read music, not the problem I thought it would be, but still in it's infancy with me. I have $650, so far, so I'm close, and will get the rest in the next week or so. I have a Ford PU, don't get me started on the price of gas...BUT, now I can stay home more and practice, practice, practice.....I NEED that Wheatstone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 ... on first glimpse it looked fairly well used, most noticeable were the cracked leather thumb straps. So being new to this interest, and having a beginner's Anglo, I was less than enthusiastic. Rusty, To me the thumb straps look "a little frayed", rather than cracked, but bearing in mind that they appear like they may have been on the instrument since 1853, they don't look too bad at all. Anyway, it's not such a huge deal to change the straps. The seller ... says it's tuned to A=440, the bellows are in excellent shape, all keys work, comes with the original rosewood box. Today, at my request, he sent additional photos, guess next I will phone and ask him to play it. My questions are these. Should I bother continuing on this quest, as I'm a beginner, learning on an Anglo, would it be too much to also try to learn an English? I know it's buyer beware, and I'm in early stages, is this a fair ball park price? If it's in concert pitch, and playable, then it sounds worth getting, and I'd certainly recommend giving the English a try - it's a great instrument and you might actually find you prefer it to the Anglo! And for that matter, you can subsequently buy a top-class English for a fraction of the price you'd have to pay for an Anglo of lesser quality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 (edited) And for that matter, you can subsequently buy a top-class English for a fraction of the price you'd have to pay for an Anglo of lesser quality! A fraction? I'd like to know where those are sold. The last time I checked we were talking about $3000-4000. Sigh. Now another, a little bigger sigh. I've got lots of them. Edited June 11, 2008 by m3838 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 And for that matter, you can subsequently buy a top-class English for a fraction of the price you'd have to pay for an Anglo of lesser quality! A fraction? I'd like to know where those are sold. The last time I checked we were talking about $3000-4000. Sigh. But that's less than half, and maybe only a third of what good Anglos are fetching! And I bought a top-quality Aeola, that was specially made for a well-known professional player, off eBay only a few months ago for £1,300, that is greatly admired by all the Anglo players round here, both for its tone and dynamic range. Better than any Jeffries and a quarter the price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I bought a top-quality Aeola, that was specially made for a well-known professional player, off eBay only a few months ago for £1,300, that is greatly admired by all the Anglo players round here, both for its tone and dynamic range. Better than any Jeffries and a quarter the price! You mean Albions compete with top quality Aeolas? Mmm. I tried one recently, but wasnt't particularly impressed with compression. How much did you put in yours to make it tight and responsive? (please don't say "none". Say something like $10000 GBP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I bought a top-quality Aeola, that was specially made for a well-known professional player, off eBay only a few months ago for £1,300, that is greatly admired by all the Anglo players round here, both for its tone and dynamic range. Better than any Jeffries and a quarter the price! You mean Albions compete with top quality Aeolas? Only if you manage to get the Aeolas for a good price - but this one was on eBay! Mmm. I tried one recently, but wasnt't particularly impressed with compression. I'm not interested in compression, only how they play... (And those two considerations can be mutually exclusive - if you make the springs strong enough to give perfect compression, the action becomes unplayable. ) How much did you put in yours to make it tight and responsive? (please don't say "none". Say something like $10000 GBP) Sorry, you're going to hate me! When I got the instrument it was pretty lifeless, but then it hadn't been played since the death of its original owner in 1985... All I did was to play it for a few weeks and its voice magically returned, it now sounds absolutely magnificent, just as good as it did on all the recordings he made with it over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 When I got the instrument it was pretty lifeless, but then it hadn't been played since the death of its original owner in 1985... All I did was to play it for a few weeks and its voice magically returned, it now sounds absolutely magnificent, just as good as it did on all the recordings he made with it over the years. Anybody wants to buy sighs? I guarantee the quality. Got tons of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 When I got the instrument it was pretty lifeless, but then it hadn't been played since the death of its original owner in 1985... All I did was to play it for a few weeks and its voice magically returned, it now sounds absolutely magnificent, just as good as it did on all the recordings he made with it over the years. Anybody wants to buy sighs? I guarantee the quality. Got tons of them. To be fair, I suspect some people may have been put off by the relatively late date of the instrument (1937) and the fact that the bellows and sides were painted gold, which is now very worn-looking, but that (and the fact that it was for sale in the town its owner died in) was what gave me the clue to its identity: Alf Edwards' Concertina Sold On Ebay Even the amboyna Aeola 50 Key Treble, on Ebay that had belonged to the Russian-American virtuoso Gregory Matusewitch, which may have set a record price, sold for only $6,450.55 in what appears to be good condition, when you sometimes see wrecks of Jeffries Anglos selling for around $10,000 on eBay... English concertinas are much better value for money! (But don't tell anybody, or they'll all be buying them... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyH Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Man, who knew a couple of weeks in Scotland, in April, would take me down this path? Life definitely has it's moments. Now I'm on the road to playing and collecting concertinas? Bring it on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Man, who knew a couple of weeks in Scotland, in April, would take me down this path? Life definitely has it's moments. Now I'm on the road to playing and collecting concertinas? Bring it on! Hey Rusty Another one bites the dust. http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...ost&p=17005 Be careful! It's addicting. There is a support group for that sort of thing. Thanks Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyH Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Man, who knew a couple of weeks in Scotland, in April, would take me down this path? Life definitely has it's moments. Now I'm on the road to playing and collecting concertinas? Bring it on! Hey Rusty Another one bites the dust. http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...ost&p=17005 Be careful! It's addicting. There is a support group for that sort of thing. Thanks Leo Thanks Leo....I'm not alone! Aw heck, another obsession is beginning, I can feel it! Guess it just fits my personality type. Lets see, woodturner, paragliding pilot..... oh I can't go on..... obsession is my life. But at least I'll have an activity when parawaiting other than hackysack. Maybe I can dump all my camera equipment and take it aloft to play while cruising the ridge for hours That would really confuse the people below Trouble is, paragliding was my top obsession, now I'm considering using the money saved for a fly-in up in the interior this weekend, for the purchase of my first Wheatstone....now this is getting really depressing. What to do, what to do....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Be careful! It's addicting. There is a support group for that sort of thing. My name is Stephen and I am a concertinaholic. But I am getting better - even if I did have a relapse and buy the Henry Harley on eBay today. It's the first concertina I've bought since the beginning of March - honest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 What to do, what to do....... Some people's dilemmas... You simply need a hot air balloon, then, without been able to steer it, you'll have nothng to do but playing. For hours? For days, I say. Or just get a wife with 2 kids, they'll show you paragliding! And if you already have wife, get another one. (Oh, please! I'm just kidding) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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