"all American Concertina Album"

[wntrmute]

And it's got the Monty Python theme song!!! Sheesh, whats not to love.

[m3838]

Andy is a professional bass player, and this unusual format reflects that...it works for him. That particlar format, including the octave jumps, has never been attempted, to my knowledge, in the history of our instrument for a published work. It is a pity that it will cause more 'thinking' (as someone said above) and difficulty, and thus put off, many sight reading anglo players, when it seems to offer little advantage. It is a grand experiment. I could easily be wrong, but I don't think the format will catch on. I hope you are right, and that there are many folks who will work through it.

 

If only the world would switch to MY notation system, not only it would make me rich beyond my wildest dreams, it will effectively eliminate the whole problem of writing the notes below or above the octave or learning to read various cleffs.

It just shows you that common sense has nothing to do with logic in simple mathematical way. That's why Art is present and that's why Art is the only mean of true communication between people, and that's why Art is the most important aspect of human civilization.

Said I , packing the dirt on the tomb of my financial future.

[Graham Collicutt]

Paul, Daniel,

 

Wow! Sounds like this is a guy the concertina world SHOULD know about. Since you both know him, is there any way either of you could convince him into recording a tune or two, either for the recordings page on the Forum, or perhaps for You Tube? It is a pity not to be able to hear someone with this much talent. I was blown away when I first heard Andrew Blakeny Edwards recordings of ragtime tunes....Alan seems like he is cut from the same cloth, and should to be encouraged to connect with the worldwide anglo tribe of today.

 

Here, by the way, is a picture I found of him: http://piperhq.com/ceilidh-music.htm

 

How about a techie question on this. If his sheet music were in a digital music-writing software (which it undoubtedly was before the publisher got it), it could be played back....not as good as hearing him, of course, but much better than just sight reading those arrangements. Does anyone know how to scan sheet music to get it 'automatically' in a software form?

 

Now I shall add my little bit about writing complex arrangements for anglo. Alan used the standard treble and bass clef two-staff approach, which is of course the way to go for anyone with piano and/or classical background. The unfortunate thing about that for anglo sightreaders is the bass clef...we are used to reading in treble. Maybe it is a small thing, but some notes (like C above middle C) are on both the left and right hands...so that the same exact note 'looks' completely different on the left hand staff than it does on the right hand staff (and, also a bit peculiar, all notes are written an octave lower than they sound). To get around this, I usually put my two staffs both in treble clef, and never mind the fact that some get a bit high or low relative to the five lines. Classical types may well recoil, but I find it much easier to sight read. A small matter, perhaps, but one that works against anglo players in reading fully arranged music, in my opinion...or am I a minority of one in this? I suppose I could just get over it!!

 

Regardless, the arrangements are quite an achievement, especially given the high praise from Paul and Daniel. I'd like to hear him play...they and the book have whetted my interest.

 

Dan

 

PS to Dirge: The notes are all intentionally written an octave lower than they actually sound...one of the problems I was mentioning above.

 

I have no idea how well it works but here is a link http://www.myriad-online.com/en/products/pdftomusic.htm and http://www.myriad-online.com/en/products/omer.htm

 

An anglo player who can just about read music but hasn't mastered the bass clef, so I have to first learn bass clef, just play an octave higher. It is off putting.

 

Graham

[Paul Groff]

(edited to delete)

Edited May 26, 2008 by Paul Groff

[Dan Worrall]

Paul, Daniel,

 

Wow! Sounds like this is a guy the concertina world SHOULD know about. Since you both know him, is there any way either of you could convince him into recording a tune or two, either for the recordings page on the Forum, or perhaps for You Tube? It is a pity not to be able to hear someone with this much talent. I was blown away when I first heard Andrew Blakeny Edwards recordings of ragtime tunes....Alan seems like he is cut from the same cloth, and should to be encouraged to connect with the worldwide anglo tribe of today.

 

Here, by the way, is a picture I found of him: http://piperhq.com/ceilidh-music.htm

 

How about a techie question on this. If his sheet music were in a digital music-writing software (which it undoubtedly was before the publisher got it), it could be played back....not as good as hearing him, of course, but much better than just sight reading those arrangements. Does anyone know how to scan sheet music to get it 'automatically' in a software form?

 

Now I shall add my little bit about writing complex arrangements for anglo. Alan used the standard treble and bass clef two-staff approach, which is of course the way to go for anyone with piano and/or classical background. The unfortunate thing about that for anglo sightreaders is the bass clef...we are used to reading in treble. Maybe it is a small thing, but some notes (like C above middle C) are on both the left and right hands...so that the same exact note 'looks' completely different on the left hand staff than it does on the right hand staff (and, also a bit peculiar, all notes are written an octave lower than they sound). To get around this, I usually put my two staffs both in treble clef, and never mind the fact that some get a bit high or low relative to the five lines. Classical types may well recoil, but I find it much easier to sight read. A small matter, perhaps, but one that works against anglo players in reading fully arranged music, in my opinion...or am I a minority of one in this? I suppose I could just get over it!!

 

Regardless, the arrangements are quite an achievement, especially given the high praise from Paul and Daniel. I'd like to hear him play...they and the book have whetted my interest.

 

Dan

 

PS to Dirge: The notes are all intentionally written an octave lower than they actually sound...one of the problems I was mentioning above.

 

I have no idea how well it works but here is a link http://www.myriad-online.com/en/products/pdftomusic.htm and http://www.myriad-online.com/en/products/omer.htm

 

An anglo player who can just about read music but hasn't mastered the bass clef, so I have to first learn bass clef, just play an octave higher. It is off putting.

 

Graham

 

Hi Graham, many thanks for the two links.

 

I tried out the 'Omer' software the other night and thought I'd report on the experiment. It was free for testing, and I already am a bit of a power user of myriad's Harmony Assistant. I was able to convert a couple of pages pretty quickly....but I got only about 40% success in playing recognizeable music for Lassus Trombone, and much less still for Maple Leaf Rag. There are some features of the book's printed music format that the software doesn't like (some are non-standard, like the inclusion of notes above middle C within the bass clef in Maple S R). I have a feeling that this software is pretty hard to please for anything; I put some 19th century sheet music from a concertina tutor into it, and it couldn't read it at all. The mistakes in conversion can be fairly easily edited, one by one....but that starts to become a very big job pretty quickly. And there is no way to rewrite it in a more convenient clef format once you are done. Oh, well.

 

By the way, the 40% of Lassus Trombone that 'worked' sounded pretty good!

 

Dan

[David Barnert]

(edited to delete)

Too bad. That was a great post. I read it in the e-mail before it was deleted. My wife asked me why I had a broad smile on my face as I was reading it (it was the bit about school kids learning piano). I think all of Dan's and Paul's posts have very compellingly laid out competing arguments, and I don't know which I agree with more. Bravo to both of you.

[Anglo player]

The selected arrangements are presented as repertoire, (in musical manuscript--sight reading not required). All of these arrangements were done at the Concertina, not on paper. The idiomatic playability of this repertoire will be self-evident and may readily bring musical enjoyment. The piano 2-staff system (up an octave) does lend itself to the concertina's two-handedness in 3 1/2 octaves, and it allows presentation of the notation without excessive ledger lines.

 

Alan Lochhead (Anglo Concertina)

[Dan Worrall]

Alan,

 

Welcome to the Forum. As you can clearly see, we are a lively bunch here!

 

Your book is very impressive. I remember seeing an ad for it years back, in an earlier incarnation, and later kicking myself for not getting it when it was available. Great to see it in print again. Full arrangements for anglo are, as you well know, scarcer than hen's teeth, and yours treats material not often heard on Anglo.

 

Have you ever considered putting out some recordings? Either formally in a commercial CD, or informally on someting like YouTube? If you search around the Forum, you'll see that Leo keeps us abreast of new video clips ( e.g., this post http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=7613 ). It would be wonderful for us to be able to hear your playing, given the rave reviews we have heard from Paul Groff and Daniel Hersch.

 

Cheers,

Dan

[m3838]

The selected arrangements are presented as repertoire, (in musical manuscript--sight reading not required). All of these arrangements were done at the Concertina, not on paper. The idiomatic playability of this repertoire will be self-evident and may readily bring musical enjoyment. The piano 2-staff system (up an octave) does lend itself to the concertina's two-handedness in 3 1/2 octaves, and it allows presentation of the notation without excessive ledger lines.

 

Alan Lochhead (Anglo Concertina)

 

 

Hi.

I put an order for your book with Amazon, but it's out of print. Are you in the know about where it will be replenished?

Thanks.

[Graham Collicutt]

The selected arrangements are presented as repertoire, (in musical manuscript--sight reading not required). All of these arrangements were done at the Concertina, not on paper. The idiomatic playability of this repertoire will be self-evident and may readily bring musical enjoyment. The piano 2-staff system (up an octave) does lend itself to the concertina's two-handedness in 3 1/2 octaves, and it allows presentation of the notation without excessive ledger lines.

 

Alan Lochhead (Anglo Concertina)

 

 

Hi.

I put an order for your book with Amazon, but it's out of print. Are you in the know about where it will be replenished?

Thanks.

 

http://www.musictime.com/product_info.php?...81358f74cca3fc2

 

I ordered a copy through Musictime a few days ago. I hope they had stock then.

 

Graham

[Dan Worrall]

Hi.

I put an order for your book with Amazon, but it's out of print. Are you in the know about where it will be replenished?

Thanks.

Don't know what continent you live on, but I bought mine online from Elderly Instruments...they'll ship anywhere.

Dan

[Graham Collicutt]

The selected arrangements are presented as repertoire, (in musical manuscript--sight reading not required). All of these arrangements were done at the Concertina, not on paper. The idiomatic playability of this repertoire will be self-evident and may readily bring musical enjoyment. The piano 2-staff system (up an octave) does lend itself to the concertina's two-handedness in 3 1/2 octaves, and it allows presentation of the notation without excessive ledger lines.

 

Alan Lochhead (Anglo Concertina)

 

 

Hi.

I put an order for your book with Amazon, but it's out of print. Are you in the know about where it will be replenished?

Thanks.

 

http://www.musictime.com/product_info.php?...81358f74cca3fc2

 

I ordered a copy through Musictime a few days ago. I hope they had stock then.

 

Graham

The answer was no they haven't got in stock, it is on back order and will take at least 2 weeks and quoted postage to UK was incorrect. There is no stock in UK showing on www and the cheap postage, $4, was the deciding factor in choosing them. The Button Box have them as well.

 

Graham

[m3838]

The Button Box have them as well.

Graham

Thanks.

I cancelled my order with Amazon and ordered from the Button Box.

I'm sure I'll have to do fair amount of fiddling with it to adapt to EC.

 

I will become a member of that Concertina thing Library, but am afraid that the most of EC arrangements are dated, overworldly chorded and the music is..mm. specific. I looked at Regondi arrangements and listened to two CDs I have, and they left me unimpressed. The amount of proficiency needed is not justified by the muical outcome, to my taste, and going three octaves up, then down, then way up again is not supported by the instrument in my posession.

[m3838]

And I have recieved the book.

Already!

Upon first look I must say that I, for instance, will play it as written, not a squeaky octave up. I will adopt the basses and bring it to one stave, will see what will happen. I'm especially interested in Rags.

Secondly, I am lost at some posters, who stated the difficulty of figuring the music out.

The score even indicates the pull and push. What indication of buttons and rows do you need, that is more obvious than pull/push symbols?

Thirdly, the scores have mostly single note melody on the right, and chords on the left.

Whoever is afraid of that is better off picking up a kazoo. It's a more or less beginner's book for the Anglo with music other than "tunes".

Resume: Get this book, especially you, Irish players. It'll teach you a bunch about Irish music, and you'll stop wining about playing chords in ITM, and hopefully start playing the "music", not "ITM", which I suspect stands for "I Talk Much".

Sorry for the "tough love", but so many of you trashed the book without looking at it, and those who offered the Book, described it dead wrong.

I think it's a must for amateur Anglo players, if they want to learn something. None too late.

Hopefully it's not the last one, and other books and arrangements will follow.

Edited June 2, 2008 by m3838

[Richard Morse]

Hopefully it's not the last one, and other books and arrangements will follow.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a sequel. I was talking with the guy about 10 years ago about the Button Box "publishing" it (I had a hand-written copy of his stuff back then) but it was going to be a lot of work to fix the errors and set it. He seemed totally uninterested in "getting it out there". I subsequently let the "project" go... and now - here it is! I'm very pleased with the way it turned out but can't help but wonder that the effort was by someone else taking on the enormous task - unless he got a second wind somewhere along the line?

 

I think it would be great to have more material like this.

 

-- Rich --

[m3838]

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a sequl.

 

I wasn't talking about the sequel. I just hope that more books of this sort will arrive.

I am not very pleased with concertina books arrangement wise. Looks like arrangers century ago had an opionion that good players must have extended range, and arrangers today think that single melody line is good enough.

[David Barnert]

Upon first look I must say that I, for instance, will play it as written, not a squeaky octave up.

But, if I am not mistaken, you will be playing the pieces on English Concertina, not Anglo. On a C/G Anglo (for which the book was primarily written), there's really no other place to play them but up an octave.

[m3838]

Upon first look I must say that I, for instance, will play it as written, not a squeaky octave up.

But, if I am not mistaken, you will be playing the pieces on English Concertina, not Anglo. On a C/G Anglo (for which the book was primarily written), there's really no other place to play them but up an octave.

 

Yes, exactly. That's why I'm saying what I'm saying. I'm interested in this book for it's musical value, married to Concertina (hopefully) specifics sound-wise and range-wise.

I realise that on CG Anglo you'll have to play it higher. I suspect it was done for convinience of reading, to avoid many leger lines on both ends of the G-cleff stave..

But then again, I will not be able to add octaves and harmony, while playing the melody, so it's a solid trade-off.