Teaching Style Of Edel Fox And Tim Collins

[richard]

Hello

 

I am excited to be able to take a class with Edel Fox and Tim Collins in July at Irish Arts Week. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with how they run their classes that are continuous over a week.

 

I am familiar with Noel Hill's classes where you get one or more tunes a session and hustle out of there to learn the tune and try to play it for the next meeting....and so on for each class. It is intense and challenging, and for me leaves little time to do other activiities.

 

Do Edel and Tim run their classes that way? What can I expect, and anticipate?

 

Anyone else going to be in those classes in July?

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

[Lawrence Reeves]

Richard I have taken workshops with both, and will tell you that both are consummate teachers. I reviewed the Catskills class in the fall if you look at my old posts. You can expect to learn tunes of course, but with both you will learn "style". They are both very good at breaking down the mechanical parts of their own playing, and will "fix what ails you".

 

Hello

 

I am excited to be able to take a class with Edel Fox and Tim Collins in July at Irish Arts Week. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with how they run their classes that are continuous over a week.

 

I am familiar with Noel Hill's classes where you get one or more tunes a session and hustle out of there to learn the tune and try to play it for the next meeting....and so on for each class. It is intense and challenging, and for me leaves little time to do other activiities.

 

Do Edel and Tim run their classes that way? What can I expect, and anticipate?

 

Anyone else going to be in those classes in July?

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

[Azalin]

Thanks for the info. I'll probably be taking my first concertina class at the Catskills.

 

 

Richard I have taken workshops with both, and will tell you that both are consummate teachers. I reviewed the Catskills class in the fall if you look at my old posts. You can expect to learn tunes of course, but with both you will learn "style". They are both very good at breaking down the mechanical parts of their own playing, and will "fix what ails you".

 

Hello

 

I am excited to be able to take a class with Edel Fox and Tim Collins in July at Irish Arts Week. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with how they run their classes that are continuous over a week.

 

I am familiar with Noel Hill's classes where you get one or more tunes a session and hustle out of there to learn the tune and try to play it for the next meeting....and so on for each class. It is intense and challenging, and for me leaves little time to do other activiities.

 

Do Edel and Tim run their classes that way? What can I expect, and anticipate?

 

Anyone else going to be in those classes in July?

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

[chiton1]

Hello

 

I am excited to be able to take a class with Edel Fox and Tim Collins in July at Irish Arts Week. I am wondering if anyone is familiar with how they run their classes that are continuous over a week.

 

I am familiar with Noel Hill's classes where you get one or more tunes a session and hustle out of there to learn the tune and try to play it for the next meeting....and so on for each class. It is intense and challenging, and for me leaves little time to do other activiities.

 

Do Edel and Tim run their classes that way? What can I expect, and anticipate?

 

Anyone else going to be in those classes in July?

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

 

 

I also have done workshops with both. And very much appreciated both their personalities and their classes.

They (as many teachers do) learn you new tunes. But of course the most important thing is not the new tune itself but what they do or can be done playing that tune (ornamentations, variations, etc. etc.). I never did a Noel Hill workshop but certainly can recommend those by Edel and Tim. They are fun and I learned a great deal.

Would love to go myself again, but can not

Hermann

[Alan Miller]

RIchard: I also have taken workshops from Edel Fox and Tim Collins at Irish Arts Week in the Catskills. Both are excellent, and you will be happy with whomever you choose. Here are my impressions.

 

I took a beginner workshop with Edel the first year that she taught. She is an excellent teacher and exceptional player, as well as a very nice person. She is flexible in her fingering, and she teaches by taking a new tune each session. She will choose reels and jigs, including slip jigs. She passes out the dots or at least will give the letters for the tune, and then she will play it slow then fast with and without ornaments. You will be expected to play it back the next day but some people opt out of that "performance." She will take the class as far as you want to take it. That was a bit of a challenge for some in the beginner class who were less interested in leaning, but I doubt that would be a problem in an intermediate class. Bottom line is that she is a geat player with a friendly approach, and a person who tries to get to know the students. She will teach as much as you want to learn, and she knows how to do it.

 

 

Tim Collins is a fabulous teacher, and extremely considerate. My experience with him is more through individual lessons than through workshops although I did attend his Catskills workshop for two days last year. In that workshop he took one tune and contintued to work on it by adding ornaments the day after he intially gave it to us. He is less about learning tunes, and more about learning to play the instrument. I have had individual lessons from Tim several times over the past couple of years, including three lessons at his home in Crusheen this past month. His approach is not to teach his style but to help you develop your style. As he puts it, we are all on an individual musical journey. He will help you find the trail markers for that journey. For me, that has meant much emphasis on rhythm, including a form of exercise that I am to do every practice for the next year with the promise that it will make a difference. So, at least in an individual lesson, Tim will work with your own ability and your sense of music, and will try to guide you to make the result musical.

 

I am signed up for Tim's intermediate workshop in the Catskills and look forward to seeing you there. I did not sign up for a second workhop because when I did that in the past, I found myself trying to learn tunes rather than enjoying all that the week has to offer. For me, one workshop a day is enough although it is always tempting to do more because of the collection of great teachers.

 

Alan

[richard]

Hello

 

Thanks for the helpful information so far.

 

The above helps me know what to expect.

 

I will be taking Edel's intermediate class in the AM, and Tim's advanced in the PM.

 

It will be a bit intensive to do both properly but I want to take advantage of what is offered. I agree with you Alan that, as well, I want to have time and energy to take in all the peripheral events and music.

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

[Azalin]

Wow this seems super cool. I like the fact that Tim Collins doesnt only "teach tunes", because I always said that you can learn tunes at home, but it's harder to learn technique by yourself. So I'm definitely going to try to get in Collin's class, and will see about the other.

[Azalin]

I got a question, though. From those who attended the classes before, what's the difference between 'intermediate' and 'advanced' ? I think I would categorize myself as 'intermediate' concertina player, but always ended up wishing I took the advanced class because I do practice an hour or two mostly every day so I'm willing to put the effort into it.

 

Do you think it would be sensible for me to take an advanced class in the morning and one the evening? Would my brain overheat?

[richard]

Hi

 

I am taking the intermediate class in the AM and the advance in the PM because I want to have the opportunity to learn from those players.

 

It is possible I will flounder in the intermediate class and humiliate myself in the advanced class.... That will be OK, I will handle it. But I am eager for useful critical attentions of good players.

 

Richard

[Azalin]

Well, I'm mainly wondering if you will really get what I call advanced players in the advanced class. Most of the time, 'advanced' is actually intermediate, from my point of view, the really advanced players not taking lessons and playing in the pubs or sleeping instead :-) But maybe it's different for concertina and I'll also humiliate myself in the advanced class... but I'd rather humiliate myself than feeling sorry I didnt take the advanced class.

[richard]

Hi

 

The folks who run Irish Arts Week have a quantifiable standard for each level. You should ask them.

 

I think for advanced it is: to have played 5 years and know 30 tunes. ...But that could be Intermediate.

 

Richard

[David Levine]

Azalin- take the advanced class. No question about it. Take two advanced classes.

Anybody who can play Lads Unleashed on the concertina, no matter what speed,

is an advanced player. You have great facility on the low notes on the lefthand.

You know lots of tunes, you play nice and steady, you know music and the instrument.

If you were not so ugly I'd advise you to take three advanced classes - but we all have our limits.

Love,

CF

[Azalin]

Azalin- take the advanced class. No question about it. Take two advanced classes.

Anybody who can play Lads Unleashed on the concertina, no matter what speed,

is an advanced player. You have great facility on the low notes on the lefthand.

You know lots of tunes, you play nice and steady, you know music and the instrument.

If you were not so ugly I'd advise you to take three advanced classes - but we all have our limits.

Love,

CF

 

Haha crazy man! But thanks for the heads up, I guess I will do that. By the way I'm 99.99% sure I'll make it again in november, and this time I'll have two bottles of wine

[ceemonster]

[what's the difference between 'intermediate' and 'advanced']

 

in ireland there is more of a difference, but in the catskills, the bald fact is, none whatsover. people overrate their abilities in the catskills to such a ridiculous degree, that, if you can learn an assigned tune by ear and can play accurately and rhythmically even if slowly, you are dandy in the advanced class. i have done both levels with gearoid and experienced no difference. he explained the same ornaments in both (though his bent is more tunes than technique, he can and will break down anything you ask about). i choose my class based not on "level" but on what player/teacher i wish to be exposed to for a week. the only difference i saw was that in gearoid's intermediate class, i got to learn more of the clare tunes i will use frequently rather than more rare obscure (though great) tunes, which you end up learning in the advanced class if the teacher does that thing of asking for a show of hands until zero people know the tune. one year we didn't get to learn the junior crehan hornpipe "the hills of coore" because one person out of a class of 25 knew it.

 

digression: (personally, i ALWAYS fib about this, because when i have spent thousands of dollars to travel to learn concertina from an expert, i would prefer to work on a familiar tune so i can concentrate on technique---ornamentation, phrasing, etc.....i already do more than enough ear earning at home. the box virtuoso colm nea of tipperary told me in ireland that classes where all they do is stuff gobs of tunes by ear-learning into you all week are a complete waste of time, and i agree. he noted that in a week, the brain can assimilate no more than two unfamiliar new tunes by ear, and the rest is a waste. this describes my neurological capabilities to a "t"! after two tunes, i stop bothering to work on ear "homework" during a festival week where there is so much more to do. i'm not cheeky to the teacher about it, but i just go about my business and leave that tape recorder on. i urge the People's Army to FIB, FIB, FIB! it hasn't worked yet, but i'm still FIBBING!!! "THE EWE REEL????? NEVER HEARD OF IT!!!!")

 

regarding the catskills-phenom-of-self-overrating, this has been discussed here before, and i'm not kidding---it's like the phenom known as "grade inflation" at universities-----there is this thing in ITM learning about adults, particularly americans, i'm afraid, who have done other workshops or the noel hill school. in any class, there are always at least a couple-to-a-few of these who feel they must go into the more advanced classes despite the fact that, regardless of how many classes they have taken their skill set remains such that they cannot learn the tunes or play the tunes. people go into the intermediate group who would be better off in the beginner group. people go into the advanced group who would be better off in the intermediate group or occasionally even the beginner group.

 

for this reason, you don't need to be a virtuoso in the advanced class (though there are some wonderful players). you just have to be able to play and learn the tune, and you're fine. conversely, for this same reason, the intermediate class is just as useful!

Edited May 29, 2008 by ceemonster

[Azalin]

Thanks lady, it makes sens. I hate the fact that people can 'rate' themselves. It's too bad, the more serious or talented players and paying the price for those who don't have a clue. See ya there anyway, and hopefully you'll show me some tricks :-)

[Phantom Button]

I've never been to Catskills or Willy Week and received my training either through private instruction or local workshops, but I hear that at Willy Week they determine your level based on an audition. Is this true? It seems like a good idea to me because the different levels should be designed as such so that players at different levels will receive instruction more efficiently.

[tombilly]

Usually at Willie Clancy/ Joe Mooney etc. week, people roughly self sort themselves into beginner, intermediate, advanced by going to different rooms. There could be 60+ in each room along with the various tutors for that level. Everybody plays something - the tutors listen and assign either to a particular person or suggest a move to another room. It can be a bit unsettling for some people and you might only play the first part of a tune etc., so it helps to pick something well within your comfort level. After that, when the classes start proper, the tutor listens again and there's often some switching. People can move from class to class but it's not encouraged as obviously, it messes things up number wise. And anyway, there is often more to be had by sticking with one tutor for the week unless it's obviously too easy or too hard.

[Azalin]

Yeah but in practice I noticed that some of the teachers (at Willie Week anyway) dare not tell a student they don't belong in a class. I'd rather have a teacher tell me "You're not advanced enough yet, go to this class" but some people can't handle this sort of heat and would get all upset but by being this way they also sadly screw up other people's experience