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Jedcertina On Ebay Germany


Marien
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A strange hybrid jedcertina (concertina with a piano layout) now on ebay Germany. Although I am always interested to try another system, I am not going to place a bid on this one. The weird thing is that the right hand side has a piano layout and the left hand side looks like a 20 button anglo arrangement.

 

Is there anybody in Ireland who knows what would be the left hand side's key layout?

 

It is here:

 

http://cgi.ebay.de/Nice-old-Chromatic-Conc...8QQcmdZViewItem

 

 

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Edited to change the wrong right hand into a proper left hand, thanks for the hint....

Edited by marien
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I'm not in Ireland, but I've got a concertina that's this system. On mine, the left hand is set up like a standard German 20-button concertina with rows in F and C.

 

Daniel

 

A strange hybrid jedcertina (concertina with a piano layout) now on ebay Germany. Although I am always interested to try another system, I am not going to place a bid on this one. The weird thing is that the right hand side has a piano layout and the right hand side looks like a 20 button anglo arrangement.

 

Is there anybody in Ireland who knows what would be the left hand side's key layout?

 

It is here:

 

http://cgi.ebay.de/Nice-old-Chromatic-Conc...8QQcmdZViewItem

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The weird thing is that the right hand side has a piano layout and the right hand side looks like a 20 button anglo arrangement.

You might want to edit that so the 2nd "right" is "left."

 

I saw one of these at the "Lark in the Morning" shop in Seattle a couple of years ago (October '06). Similar, except that all the keys were white (and it wasn't displayed upside down). As Daniel mentions, the left side was standard 20-button Anglo stuff (I don't remember what keys).

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Hi

I don't think it's a jedcertina

chris

Technically, it's not, since it wasn't made by Lachenal for J. E. Dallas. I also believe (but am not sure) that those had the piano-style layout on both sides.

 

I used to think of mine as a Rust system concertina, but when I looked that up again I found the following definition from Brian Hayden, which doesn't quite match this system:

 

WW: I've seen a Piano type system in JEDcertinas made by Lachenal in the 1920s or 30s, but what is the Rust system?

 

BH: The Rust system, patented in 1862, is a variation of the Piano system with a few extra notes on a third row. It often appears on cheap, German-type quality instruments, although I have seen a few instruments of a better quality. Piano system instruments have been made from very early times. Crabbs used to have a large Wheatstone Piano system instrument dating from about 1912 in their collection. Instead of the two rows of the Jedcertina, this had many rows to give a much larger range, and overlap between the hands.

I'm not sure of there's an agreed-upon name for this system at all. The one on eBay is labeled "chromatic concertina", which is certainly accurate for the right-hand side but a bit too vague.

 

Daniel

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I don't think it's a jedcertina
Technically, it's not, since it wasn't made by Lachenal for J. E. Dallas. I also believe (but am not sure) that those had the piano-style layout on both sides.

Yes, the "piano-style" layout on both ends. (I put "piano-style" in quotes, because on a true piano the white keys extend into the row of the black keys.) If you search here on "Jedcertina" you'll find out a bit more about it, including my own less-than-enthusiastic opinion of it.

 

I believe that the eBay type of instrument being discussed here has been discussed on C.net before, but I haven't yet found the thread(s). (Did I imagine it? Or was it maybe way back in the old Forum?) As I recall, it's some (Italian?) makers standard offering, though I don't know how many are actually sold. I think the important point about this layout is that it doesn't fit into any of the "standard" system designations for concertina, because the systems for the two hands are radically different. In fact, I don't know of any other instrument with a unisonoric right-hand and a bisonoric left-hand, though some accordions with bisonoric right hand have unisonoric chord layouts (e.g., Stradella) in the left hand.

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I saw one of these at the "Lark in the Morning" shop in Seattle a couple of years ago (October '06).
I think the important point about this layout is that it doesn't fit into any of the "standard" system designations for concertina, because the systems for the two hands are radically different. In fact, I don't know of any other instrument with a unisonoric right-hand and a bisonoric left-hand, though some accordions with bisonoric right hand have unisonoric chord layouts (e.g., Stradella) in the left hand.

The salesperson in Seattle called it a concertina-shaped accordion.

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Hi

In April 1862 Joseph Scates advertised in The Freemans Journal and Commercial Advertiser -

'THE NEW PIANO CONCERTINA

Joseph Scates invites attention to this new description of Concertina,

the stops of which are arranged in the same manner as on the Pianoforte...............

25s, 30s, and 42s' (s = shillings traditional English coinage -non of yer decimal rubbish :ph34r: ))

this may be related

chris

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In April 1862 Joseph Scates advertised in The Freemans Journal and Commercial Advertiser -

'THE NEW PIANO CONCERTINA

Joseph Scates invites attention to this new description of Concertina,

the stops of which are arranged in the same manner as on the Pianoforte...............

25s, 30s, and 42s' (s = shillings traditional English coinage -non of yer decimal rubbish :ph34r: ))

this may be related

The JEDcertina may be related to that Scates, but I doubt that this thing on eBay is... except for the "relationship" implied by more than one person independently thinking a piano layout on a concertina body might be worthwhile. Been more than one of those just here on Concertina.net, as I recall, though I don't recall that any who broached the idea here actually tried to build one.

 

But whatever the left-hand layout of the eBaystard may be, it appears to be based on a concept different from the right hand, and that sets it apart from anything "piano"-based that I've heard of from any of the English makers.

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Hi

Given the price for which Scates was advertising his 'piano concertina' coupled with the fact that he was advertising 'English Concertinas from 3Gns to 12Gns' in September of the same year, I would suggest that it was likely to be nearer to the one on ebay than to a jedcertina (which was 40+ years later in manufacture)

chris

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Given the price for which Scates was advertising his 'piano concertina' coupled with the fact that he was advertising 'English Concertinas from 3Gns to 12Gns' in September of the same year, I would suggest that it was likely to be nearer to the one on ebay than to a jedcertina (which was 40+ years later in manufacture)

Huh? :huh: You're suggesting that price (measured in terms of annual income?) determines keyboard layout? :unsure:

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I'm not sure of there's an agreed-upon name for this system at all. The one on eBay is labeled "chromatic concertina", which is certainly accurate for the right-hand side but a bit too vague.

Daniel,

 

Well their German makers called them a Chromatic Concertina, or "Cromatic"-Konzertina in this c.1939 Hess accordions catalogue, so I guess that's what they're called... :unsure:

 

Cromatic_Konzertinas2.jpg

 

But I think a warped mind is necessary in order to play one! :o

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In April 1862 Joseph Scates advertised in The Freemans Journal and Commercial Advertiser -

'THE NEW PIANO CONCERTINA

Joseph Scates invites attention to this new description of Concertina,

the stops of which are arranged in the same manner as on the Pianoforte...............

25s, 30s, and 42s'

... this may be related

I'm sure Scates' advertisement must be related to the 1862 Rust Patent, from which the Jedcertina and these German "Chromatic Concertinas" later derived.

 

WW: ... what is the Rust system?

 

BH: The Rust system, patented in 1862, is a variation of the Piano system ...

I should maybe point out (though it's probably much too late now :rolleyes: ) that though it was Charles Frederick William Rust who took out the British Patent, he was only acting as agent for the German inventor of the system, Ferdinand Glier - since it was necessary to be a resident in order to take out a British Patent.

 

So such instruments should really be described as the "Glier system" - but I don't suppose it'll catch on ... :unsure:

 

Huh? :huh: You're suggesting that price (measured in terms of annual income?) determines keyboard layout? :unsure:

Of course Jim, hasn't it always been the way?

 

In "the good old days", if you had the money you bought an English concertina, with all its advantages, but if you were poor you had to make do with the inadequacies of a cheap German one ... ;)

 

Sure, 'tis probably why Glier brought his yokes out in the first place! :huh:

Edited by Stephen Chambers
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Hi

I don't think it's a jedcertina

chris

Technically, it's not, since it wasn't made by Lachenal for J. E. Dallas. I also believe (but am not sure) that those had the piano-style layout on both sides.

 

That is why I called it a `hybrid` jedcertina, it has one side of an anglo system and one side with a piano layout (like a jedcertina has).

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It just didn't seem quite correct to me to use a name associated only with British-made concertinas for this German one. It's a bit like calling one of Uhlig's instruments an "Anglo".

 

Hi

I don't think it's a jedcertina

chris

Technically, it's not, since it wasn't made by Lachenal for J. E. Dallas. I also believe (but am not sure) that those had the piano-style layout on both sides.

 

That is why I called it a `hybrid` jedcertina, it has one side of an anglo system and one side with a piano layout (like a jedcertina has).

Edited by Daniel Hersh
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It just didn't seem quite correct to me to use a name associated only with British-made concertinas for this German one. It's a bit like calling one of Uhlig's instruments an "Anglo".

Worse, I'd say. It's more like calling a Chemnitzer a "Linota".

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