For Anglo Players Who Read "dots"

[Dirge]

I used to live in Wells; population about 12,000. Whoever told you 2.9 million was way out.

 

Not many of them spoke Welsh either; in fact, given that there were a couple of Kebab shops I'd guess Turkish might be the most popular minority language, Somerset dialect not counting as a language per se, of course (Shame!).

[m3838]

I used to live in Wells; population about 12,000. Whoever told you 2.9 million was way out.

 

Not many of them spoke Welsh either; in fact, given that there were a couple of Kebab shops I'd guess Turkish might be the most popular minority language, Somerset dialect not counting as a language per se, of course (Shame!).

2.9 million was the number from around the world. There are, it says, some small communities in Australia and Brazil, speaking Welsh. I guess these small comunities number more than in Wells.

Have a nice example of what it felt like on Babilonian Tower construction site

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrsYl0td1YY&feature=user

[JimLucas]

I used to live in Wells; population about 12,000. Whoever told you 2.9 million was way out.

 

Not many of them spoke Welsh either; in fact, given that there were a couple of Kebab shops I'd guess Turkish might be the most popular minority language, Somerset dialect not counting as a language per se, of course (Shame!).

2.9 million was the number from around the world. There are, it says, some small communities in Australia and Brazil, speaking Welsh. I guess these small comunities number more than in Wells.

Have a nice example of what it felt like on Babilonian Tower construction site

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrsYl0td1YY&feature=user

Misha,

• Wales is a "constituent country" of the United Kingdom.
  
• Wells is a small city in southwestern England, near Wales, but not part of it. (And there are other towns with the same name elsewhere in the world, but I can find no country or ethnic population named "Wells".)
  

The names may sound the same to you, but their populations and "native" languages differ significantly.

[Dirge]

I WAS going to tell him Jim, honest...

[JimLucas]

I WAS going to tell him Jim, honest...

Thought I'd save you the trouble.

 

Besides, at the time I answered I thought you might be asleep.

[Dirge]

No, just about to turn in now. G'night.

[Mikefule]

Look, don't catch me on this.

Oh boy!

All right, I picked up a shield and unless the info is absolutely flawed here comes:

Scotland:

population is about 5 million people, Scotish Gaelic spoken by 58 thousand people.(what?)

Ireland:

Population in both parts 6 million people, Irish Gaelic spoken by 350 thousand.(wow! My applauds)

Wells is populated by 2.9 millions and Welsh is spoken by 750 thousand.(see? that's a proud Nation for you)

So...

If Scotts and Irish are so not Anglo-Saxon, let them learn English as a Second Language.

As long as Scottish or Irish don't know Gaelic from Garlick, their ethnic identity is on par with cardboard box.

 

I don't question your figures on language spoken. Plenty of Saxons speak German. Plenty of English people have more Norse genetic heritage than Anglo Saxon. Some English dialects have a strong Norse influence. The upper classes have a Norman French inheritance, and the Queen has German heritage, a Greek husband, and some of her sons appear to have been conceived in Error. But that's not the point.

 

The musical styles of the four parts of the fairly-United Kingdom are different. The Irish is all diddly diddly ad nauseam,when they're no eulogising goats, the Scottish is melancholy, morose and miserable, and the Wesh is, well... Welsh: tall hats and chapel. As for the English: it is simple and robust, like ourselves. It's the music that once ruled the world, I tell you.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Mikefule

[Anglo-Irishman]

As for the English: it is simple and robust, like ourselves. It's the music that once ruled the world, I tell you.

 

"Let Erin remember the days of old ..." when no Anglo-Saxon nobleman was considered educated or cultivated if he had not been to school in an Irish monastery!

 

Now, I suppose, it's Saxon anglo players going to Irish summer schools

 

Cheers,

John

[David Levine]

As for the English: it is simple and robust, like ourselves.

Simple anyway.

[m3838]

The musical styles of the four parts of the fairly-United Kingdom are different. The Irish is all diddly diddly ad nauseam,when they're no eulogising goats, the Scottish is melancholy, morose and miserable

 

The irony is that "I" am aware of that, and like Scottish music the most, English the second and Irish the third best. But that's talking about your...Nordic Water Islands music, let's put it this way. (I expect now somebody to jump and say "what do you call "Nordic Water"?)

Believe it or not, other countries also have their musical genres, and not bad ones. Not as good as in your tormented Commonwelth, I suppose, but not that bad either. Unfortunately, most of you guys, for whom English is a first language, probably can't tell the difference between Ukraiinian Gopak and Belorussian Polka, And it is not discussed here much. But that's OK, we, dwellers of the edge of the World, amidst bears with balalaikas, don't expect you to. However, it must be pointed, that despite obvious differences between Scottish and English, and even Irish, from enough distance these styles have much in common and unmistakably of Anglo-Scottish-Irish Nordic descent. You go south, to France, and the style is remarcably different, though still is very West European. Enough to say that "Russian" music has three chords and is unthinkable without the 7th. It's the Jewish influence! And Yiddish Ashkenazy at that, as Israeli "Hebrew" style is very different

Especially it is shining through the lyrics. English (language) lyrics in Scottish and Irish songs are, to me (personally), are either instruction manuals, rhymed, or some long and watery tale about unimportant event.

Very straight forward and descriptive.

Russian lyrics are usually zany, poetic (non-descriptive), with large dose of hyperbole - would make little sense to you, stern faced Northerners.

Except, perhaps, for the Biblical interpretations, but even there Russians of all sorts just can't do it without tearing the last shirt off. I think it's Gypsy influence.

I'm just trying to explain that each culture has all kinds of music - Country AND Western.

Let's remember it on this "International" Forum and keep the cheeks flat.

And yes, I keep working on that Bach's Cello suite pieces, almost there.

[Leonard]

"For some people, when you say 'Timbuktu' it is like the end of the world, but that is not true.

I am from Timbuktu, and I can tell you we are right at the heart of the world."

 

Ali Farka Tour

Musician from Mali, West Africa

[JimLucas]

The musical styles of the four parts of the fairly-United Kingdom are different. The Irish is all diddly diddly ad nauseam,when they're no eulogising goats, the Scottish is melancholy, morose and miserable, and the Wesh is, well... Welsh: tall hats and chapel. As for the English: it is simple and robust, like ourselves. It's the music that once ruled the world, I tell you.

As so often on C.net (and elsewhere), personal taste being displayed under the pretext that it is universal fact.

Not that there's anything wrong with personal taste. E.g., Pontus strongly dislikes the taste of raspberries. But does this mean that raspberries inherently taste

bad

? Not at all. In fact, I consider their taste to be one of their virtues, since it means that when Pontus is around, I don't have to share my raspberries with him.

But I strongly suspect that Mike's characterization of the musics was done with tongue in cheek, but deliberately provocative, to see who would take him too seriously and respond accordingly.

 

The musical styles of the four parts of the fairly-United Kingdom are different. The Irish is all diddly diddly ad nauseam,when they're no eulogising goats, the Scottish is melancholy, morose and miserable

The irony is that "I" am aware of that, and like Scottish music the most, English the second and Irish the third best. But that's talking about your...Nordic Water Islands music,...

Now just a darn minute, Misha! The British Isles are not "Nordic"! If there's such a thing as "Nordic Water Islands music", it's that which comes from the islands of Denmark, Sweden, and Norway... for example

• Fanø
  
• Bornholm
  
• Gotland
  
• Öland, and
  
• Hitra
  

among others.

[m3838]

"For some people, when you say 'Timbuktu' it is like the end of the world, but that is not true.

I am from Timbuktu, and I can tell you we are right at the heart of the world."

 

Ali Farka Tour

Musician from Mali, West Africa

 

There you go. Any interesting sites with concertina from your area?

I guess Timbuktu was a symbol of exotic for Europeans, because it was pretty well known throuought the world.

But I had no idea it's in Mali. Not that I have clear vision on where Mali is, except it's probably on the border with Sahara, and judging by "Ali", bordering the Arab "North" and was probably ran over by the Arabs in some 10-12 centuries, spreading Islam.

[Anglo-Irishman]

Now just a darn minute, Misha! The British Isles are not "Nordic"! If there's such a thing as "Nordic Water Islands music", it's that which comes from the islands of Denmark, Sweden, and Norway... for example

• Fanø
  
• Bornholm
  
• Gotland
  
• Öland, and
  
• Hitra
  

among others.

 

We-e-ell, Jim,

 

With all due respect to your Scandinavian domicile, some of the British Isles are definitely Nordic - the Orkneys and Shetlands! They were originally Danish, but were given to the Scottish Crown as a pledge for the dowry of a Danish princess who married a Scottish prince - back in the 15th century, I think it was. The dowry was never paid, and so the Islands remained - nominally - Scottish to this day. Though the closest railway station to Lerwick in Shetland is Bergen in Norway, I believe!

But England has its Nordic elements, too. In the central part, you'll fnd placenames like Rugby, Digby, Hornby ... does the "-by" sound familiar to you?

Then take Tyneside (Northeast England). When dialects were still dialects, and not just accents, a Tyneside person, they say, could be better understood by a rural Norwegian than by a Londoner.

Then there's the Hebrides off the west coast of Scotland, where typical names are Morrison, MacPherson (the latter is a wonderful blend of Norwegian and Gaelic, meaning "Son of Pers Son". The Teutonic genitive "-s" has been dropped from "Per" and replaced by an aspirated initial, as in the Gaelic genitive).

Over to Ireland - the red hair so widespread in parts of Donegal is a sure sign of blond Vikings mixing with black-haired natives. Then on to Dublin - a city founded by Norwegians, now the capital of Ireland.

 

So Misha is partly right. There is a lot of Nordic in the British Isles. But he's only partly right. There's a strong Celtic influence, too, and a South-Germanic influence (Saxons). And Norman French, which is, of course, partly Norwegian, but very Europeanised.

 

It seems that you need a complex background like that to invent something as complex and yet functional as the concertina

Fascinating, all this - but I wish I could hear the music that went with it: Viking music, Celtic music, Anglo-Saxon music ...

 

Cheers,

John

[m3838]

I just read a little about Timbuktu.

Guys, you need to broaden your spectrum.

To Mali, those Arab traiders, traversing the Sands on the Ships of Desert, were Northerners.

So I guess any person in Mali will surely attribute the term "Nordic" to Mediterranean see and Cyprus.

South of Turkey will be percieved as bitterly cold and you guys are nothing more than walking ice chunks.

Let me work on my pieces some more and I'll present my rendering of Nordic piece: "Menuet from Cello suites", written by vicious Saxon Johann Sebastian Bach. (Bach? Bachus? Of pagan tradition?)

[JimLucas]

Now just a darn minute, Misha! The British Isles are not "Nordic"! If there's such a thing as "Nordic Water Islands music", it's that which comes from the islands of Denmark, Sweden, and Norway...

With all due respect to your Scandinavian domicile, some of the British Isles are definitely Nordic...

...

So Misha is partly right. There is a lot of Nordic in the British Isles.

John, by your "logic", India -- formerly ruled and culturally influenced by the British -- would be ("partly"?) a part of Europe and New Zealand would be part of the British Isles. The fact that Misha lives in San Francisco doesn't make it a city in Belarus, nor do its Chinese-descended inhabitants make it part of China. (I deliberately sidestep the question of identifying Los Angeles with Mexico, since it's currently a matter of rather acrimonious debate in the US. )

 

Or to bring it closer to your own home, the fact that the Irish Cohens are descended from a Jewish family that settled in Galway in the 12th century doesn't make Galway part of Israel, nor does it make concertina-playing Father Charlie a rabbi.

 

There are indeed many connections -- historical, cultural, genetic, and even linguistic -- between the inhabitants of the British Isles and those of the Nordic countries, but that doesn't make the British Isles geographically a part of Scandinavia.

 

I just read a little about Timbuktu.

Guys, you need to broaden your spectrum.

To Mali, those Arab traiders, traversing the Sands on the Ships of Desert, were Northerners.

So I guess any person in Mali will surely attribute the term "Nordic" to Mediterranean see and Cyprus.

...

"Nordique", perhaps, but why "Nordic"? English isn't one of the local languages, and even in English the word "Nordic" (or "nordic") isn't a synonym for "north" or "northern", but refers specifically either to a certain racial stock or to a particular group of nations of northern Europe and the North Atlantic... or to certain sports associated with those nations.

[m3838]

John, by your "logic", India -- formerly ruled and culturally influenced by the British -- would be ("partly"?) a part of Europe

I totally agree with Jim.

India is part of Europe, is it not?

The fact that Misha lives in San Francisco doesn't make it a city in Belarus, nor do its Chinese-descended inhabitants make it part of China

Yes, it is part of China, esp. considering loyalities of the Chinese inhabitants.

 

Or to bring it closer to your own home, the fact that the Irish Cohens are descended from a Jewish family that settled in Galway in the 12th century doesn't make Galway part of Israel, nor does it make concertina-playing Father Charlie a rabbi.

 

Are you saying, Jim, that he is descendant of Cohens?

Hmm, little wonder.

 

There are indeed many connections -- historical, cultural, genetic, and even linguistic -- between the inhabitants of the British Isles and those of the Nordic countries, but that doesn't make the British Isles geographically a part of Scandinavia.

Right again, as Scandinavia is part of British Isles, not the other way around. I see where you going, Jim, clever man.

 

even in English the word "Nordic" (or "nordic") isn't a synonym for "north" or "northern", but refers specifically either to a certain racial stock or to a particular group of nations of northern Europe and the North Atlantic... or to certain sports associated with those nations.

Other words, if you speak English and participate in sports, you become Nordic? I totally agree with you.

Back to practicing my North-American English.

[JimLucas]

Or to bring it closer to your own home, the fact that the Irish Cohens are descended from a Jewish family that settled in Galway in the 12th century doesn't make Galway part of Israel, nor does it make concertina-playing Father Charlie a rabbi.

Are you saying, Jim, that he is descendant of Cohens?

Father Charlie Coen (another spelling of the same family name)?

Yes, I rather suspect that he is. And as I recall, he is from Galway.

 

even in English the word "Nordic" (or "nordic") isn't a synonym for "north" or "northern", but refers specifically either to a certain racial stock or to a particular group of nations of northern Europe and the North Atlantic... or to certain sports associated with those nations.

Other words, if you speak English and participate in sports, you become Nordic? I totally agree with you.

Ah, Misha, you're such a Nordic good sport.

 

Back to practicing my North-American English.

Don't you mean "Nordic-American"?