Is Irish Concertina Music Boring?

[m3838]

I'm looking forward to it.

 

There you go.

Imagine 1910, remote village amidst snow, lonely steem engine whistle and the family is gathered round grammophone, drinking vodka and snacking on frozen salted pork fat with garlick.

Really authentic sound file, that can be called "

Motherland

", although it's called differently.

[Dirge]

That's really nice. Is that you? And when you play it is that what you imagine?

 

(I only learnt this 'think yourself into the mood' trick recently; I suppose everyone else has done it from birth...)

[chris]

hi

perhaps the next topic should be 'Has the topic entitled "Is Irish Concertina Music Boring" become totally boring in itself due to Rampant Ego's and nitpickers'

chris

[JimLucas]

Imagine 1910, remote village amidst snow, lonely steem engine whistle and the family is gathered round grammophone, drinking vodka and snacking on frozen salted pork fat with garlick.

Really authentic sound file, that can be called "Motherland", although it's called differently.[/indent]

And your daughter doesn't like that? Hmm.

Well, maybe she just doesn't like frozen lard with garlic.

Thanks for that.

[Laitch]

Really authentic sound file, that can be called "Motherland", although it's called differently.

Now that's boring.

Edited April 24, 2008 by Laitch

[Mark Evans]

I'm looking forward to it.

 

There you go.

Imagine 1910, remote village amidst snow, lonely steem engine whistle and the family is gathered round grammophone, drinking vodka and snacking on frozen salted pork fat with garlick.

Really authentic sound file, that can be called "

Motherland

", although it's called differently.

 

Bravo Misha! Nice inversions on the chords and truely masterful dynamics. It makes me really want to share with you a couple of the Shosticovich Songs of Jewish Folk Poetry. Unfortunately they are on cassette. Frozen salted pork fat, hum....I'd have a hard time with that, of course enough vodka might help .

Edited April 24, 2008 by Mark Evans

[Rod]

hi

perhaps the next topic should be 'Has the topic entitled "Is Irish Concertina Music Boring" become totally boring in itself due to Rampant Ego's and nitpickers'

chris

 

Having now accessed some of the Irish Anglo performed on Concertina.net youtube I am struck by the extent to which it seems to be a style which might perhaps be described as 'Bellows Friendly'.

It appears to be a style of playing which requires no end of nifty, imperceptable changes of bellows direction (which of course contribute immeasurably to the rhythm of the music) but it largely manages to avoid those all too frequent occasions in many other styles of music when a fully extended or fully depressed bellows is left gasping for air at just the most inconvenient moment. The combination of the Anglo Concertina and those who love their diddley-'diddley Leprechaun music' is probably a match made in heaven. 'Boring' ? We all have our individual musical dislikes and preferences but no music can ever be described as 'boring' as is surely borne out by the particularly lively debate engendered by this topic.

[m3838]

Nice inversions on the chords and truely masterful dynamics. It makes me really want to share with you a couple of the Shosticovich Songs of Jewish Folk Poetry. Unfortunately they are on cassette. Frozen salted pork fat, hum....I'd have a hard time with that, of course enough vodka might help .

(With a voice of Elvis-the-pelvice) Thank you very much.

I would hold off the "masterful dynamics" overshoot, but please share more than a couple of those "Shosticovich Songs".

I'd say frozen lard is not that bad, esp. with vodka, (not been particular fan of both). The inversions are not mine ( ), but a professional arrangement from accordion book of Russian songs, that I adapted to EC by leaving out basses and sometimes transposing some of the bass notes up an octave.

 

Now that's boring.

Agree. It's the sign of true Russian authenticity, so I take it as a compliment.

But you really have to learn to revel in the bordom, or you wouldn't be able to enjoy the main part of the symphony - the dolesome steem whistle.

 

And your daughter doesn't like that? Hmm.

Hates it.

Well, maybe she just doesn't like frozen lard with garlic.

You're right. But Vodka is, of course, fine with her.

Thanks for that.

You're welcome. Next time you'll know better than asking.

[Anglo-Irishman]

I am staying out of this thread.

 

BTW - I love Irish music on the Concertina. It is the single reason I own concertinas and am studying ITM with the anglo.

Ah, but by saying that -- in fact, just by posting that you were "staying out" -- you have failed to stay out.

 

It's a bit like those pages in some old IBM computer manuals, where they printed, "This page intentionally left blank."

 

Hey, Jim,

back in the old days, I wrote quite a few of those pages!

You mean - people actually read them?

 

Wow!

 

Cheers,

John

[CaryK]

I'm looking forward to it.

 

There you go.

Imagine 1910, remote village amidst snow, lonely steem engine whistle and the family is gathered round grammophone, drinking vodka and snacking on frozen salted pork fat with garlick.

Really authentic sound file, that can be called "

Motherland

", although it's called differently.

 

 

Very nice. And you know there are similarities with many an Irish slow air. Melody dominant (though multi-note melody it is in your piece) with chords and little runs placed just so to ornament the melody. I'm probably not using the right musical terms here, but I have the same emotional reaction to this tune as I do for other Irish airs.

[m3838]

there are similarities with many an Irish slow air. Melody dominant .... I have the same emotional reaction to this tune as I do for other Irish airs.

Well.

Russian folk songs are both, melody driven, and rhythm. They have many regional varieties and influences, imagine, Russia occupies 1/6th of the Globe's dry land.

The CD that I bought recently, with accordion Moor music, has one set with the part, identical to Belorussian Polka, "Kryzhatchok" (either a "little cross", or "young lad", or plant name ).

I mean identical.

[CaryK]

there are similarities with many an Irish slow air. Melody dominant .... I have the same emotional reaction to this tune as I do for other Irish airs.

Well.

Russian folk songs are both, melody driven, and rhythm. They have many regional varieties and influences, imagine, Russia occupies 1/6th of the Globe's dry land.

The CD that I bought recently, with accordion Moor music, has one set with the part, identical to Belorussian Polka, "Kryzhatchok" (either a "little cross", or "young lad", or plant name ).

I mean identical.

 

 

1/6th of the globe and probably an equal percentage of cultures and musical traditions. Rich indeed.

[michael sam wild]

On another thread, m3838 expressed the view that Irish concertina is boring. As it happens, I agree.

 

Although I now prefer to play mostly English music, I used to play a lot of Irish. However, I never came across anglo players at the Irish sessions I played in (admittedly, these were in England rather than in Ireland). Any concertina players at these sessions played EC. I can remember meeting an anglo player only once, at a session during Whitby Festival.

 

When Anglo International came out I was curious to listen to some Irish-style concertina playing, but most of it left me fairly underwhelmed. The music didn't seem to flow in the way it would on fiddle or flute or even button accordion. In a few places I felt the players were struggling to maintain the rhythm while battling with bellows reversals. These are top players on top-quality instruments. I am not questioning their virtuosity or musicianship, but I was left with the feeling that the anglo concertina is not ideally suited to Irish music.

 

The other problem for me is that I don't really like the sound of a single free reed. Play a few together and they sing, but one on its own sounds thin and unsupported. I prefer concertinas (regardless of system) to be played harmonically. The Irish style of playing anglo, while undoubtedly technically impressive, seems to me not to make full use of the instrument's potential.

 

(Ducks back below the parapet...)

[michael sam wild]

On another thread, m3838 expressed the view that Irish concertina is boring. As it happens, I agree.

 

Although I now prefer to play mostly English music, I used to play a lot of Irish. However, I never came across anglo players at the Irish sessions I played in (admittedly, these were in England rather than in Ireland). Any concertina players at these sessions played EC. I can remember meeting an anglo player only once, at a session during Whitby Festival.

 

When Anglo International came out I was curious to listen to some Irish-style concertina playing, but most of it left me fairly underwhelmed. The music didn't seem to flow in the way it would on fiddle or flute or even button accordion. In a few places I felt the players were struggling to maintain the rhythm while battling with bellows reversals. These are top players on top-quality instruments. I am not questioning their virtuosity or musicianship, but I was left with the feeling that the anglo concertina is not ideally suited to Irish music.

 

The other problem for me is that I don't really like the sound of a single free reed. Play a few together and they sing, but one on its own sounds thin and unsupported. I prefer concertinas (regardless of system) to be played harmonically. The Irish style of playing anglo, while undoubtedly technically impressive, seems to me not to make full use of the instrument's potential.

 

(Ducks back below the parapet...)

[geoffwright]

Thin and unsupported? In whose hands?

[geoffwright]

Thin and unsupported? In whose hands?

(Ducks back below the parapet... to avoid being accused of repetition).

[Mark Evans]

Thin and unsupported? I've never thought that. Single reed as I have listened comes across forceful and full sporting towards the portly side of things. I guess it's how one hears it. I would further say driving, particularly an AC at session when an accomplished player wades in. In my experience it gets everybody else going and we follow along in the slip stream having a grand time.

 

Bellows reversals are tough, but this is a very important part of the AC's appeal in ITM, for it almost seems as if it's a breathing, living thing. I only regret that my poor mind was not up to the task of mastering the cross-row technique.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Mark Evans

[hjcjones]

"Thin and unsupported" is of course my personal view, and it applies equally to EC as AC. I simply don't find the sound of a single concertina reed very exciting, compared with that of an instrument played chordally. I can enjoy the music it makes, but it doesn't make me feel"I want to make a sound like that!"

 

Geoff asks,"In whose hands?" My exposure to Irish-style AC is fairly limited, but it includes those players on "Anglo International", all of whom I believe are considered to be very good indeed. As I think I've pointed out previously, I posed my original question precisely because even in their hands I find I don't really engage with Irish music when played on concertina. Lots of people have said exactly the opposite, which I respect

 

I agree that bellows-reversals give AC, in any style, a lot of its energy. However my perception is that, even in expert hands, it can also hold up the music. This has already been discussed at length above and I don't really want to get into it again - suffice it to say that I respect those comments which regard this as an acceptable part of the style.

 

As for the impact of AC in a session, in 30-odd years of playing in Irish sessions around England (and a few in Ireland) I've only come across one once, so I can't comment on that.