Hand Cut Metal Ends

[Bob Tedrow]

.030 german nickle silver, hand cut and finished (well, almost)

 

Anyone care to guess how many hours are in this one piece?

[Lawrence Reeves]

30. Do I win a free concertina?

[Greg Jowaisas]

2. As in too many!

 

You are a glutton for punishment, Bob.

 

Greg

[Richard Morse]

Yikes! Do you really enjoy doing this or are you opposed to CNC equipment?

[Dirge]

They look really classy.

[Bob Tedrow]

Yikes! Do you really enjoy doing this or are you opposed to CNC equipment?

 

 

Well, I do enjoy looking at it after it's done. (It's not) There is a nice hand cut look to the sawmarks and when the top is buffed, all the inside edges roll off in a cool old timey manner. .030" nickle silver has a nice look, not too thin.

 

Actually, it's a large piece of jewelry that I will let into a concertina top.

 

I build a lot of "one of" instruments, I don't know if I could reach the economy of scale that would make CNC cheap enough. It's a heck of a lot of work though, I would be happy to have precut ends available.

 

Bob

[Richard Morse]

I build a lot of "one of" instruments, I don't know if I could reach the economy of scale that would make CNC cheap enough.

It used to be that you needed to order about 50 from a jobber to spread the setup costs out enough to get reasonable cost/part. Now it's down to about 20 ends. Still that's a lot more than you need/want. The machines are also rapidly coming down in price to the point that many hobbyists can afford them - and sometimes you can get one of those guys to make the occasional pair of ends for you for very little. They like to show off their machines which are usually very underutilized.

It's a heck of a lot of work though, I would be happy to have precut ends available.

If you would settle for having 10 identical concertinas it'd be something like $40/end to have them made, and less from a hobbyist.

 

-- Rich --

[Henrik Müller]

30. Do I win a free concertina?

Less, I am sure - but I may be disqualified for cheating

This one took about 10:

 

 

I never managed, though, to get the "cool inside-edges-roll-off" as Bob mentions.

 

But I think we should silently bow in the direction of Geoff Crabb who does the same...in stainless steel!

/Henrik

[Hooves]

30. Do I win a free concertina?

Less, I am sure - but I may be disqualified for cheating

This one took about 10:

 

 

I never managed, though, to get the "cool inside-edges-roll-off" as Bob mentions.

 

But I think we should silently bow in the direction of Geoff Crabb who does the same...in stainless steel!

/Henrik

 

 

nice looking ends. I have a CNC Router (not a CNC Milling Machine), unfortunately since I am a gypsy at heart and in the labor force, I keep moving and haven't been able to get my machine back up in over a year now.

 

Last year I did talk alot about making Concertinas, and its still a possibility, but my focus for instrument building is Octave mandolins. Maybe someday I will attempt building a concertina.

[mike averill]

I had a chat with John Connor last year, he reconned that he spent about 8 hours on a pair of hand fretted stainless ends.

 

That nickel looks nice - jeffries style - but trimmed at the edges?

[McIsog]

Box Bling!

 

My guess is 8 hours / end. 8 hours is a long time - breaks not included.

How many blades did you go through? And will you burnish it up to a high polish?

[john T]

he spent about 8 hours on a pair of hand fretted stainless ends.

 

Mike, I think he may be pulling your leg.

(Unless he was using a machine of course)

 

Stainless steel is notorious for being hard and difficult to work.

 

When I hand fretted my ends, each N/S end would take a day - a good 8 hours each one.

It isn't just the drilling & sawing, it's the fine filing too.

 

If I had to do the same job with stainless - I wouldn't bother waking up!

 

Kind regards - John Timpany.

 

And I must say guys, your concertina ends are beautifull. Very well done indeed.

Edited May 8, 2008 by john T

[Rod]

he spent about 8 hours on a pair of hand fretted stainless ends.

 

Mike, I think he may be pulling your leg.

(Unless he was using a machine of course)

 

Stainless steel is notorious for being hard and difficult to work.

 

When I hand fretted my ends, each N/S end would take a day - a good 8 hours each one.

It isn't just the drilling & sawing, it's the fine filing too.

 

If I had to do the same job with stainless - I wouldn't bother waking up!

 

Kind regards - John Timpany.

 

John. I had always assumed that the 'chrome plated metal ends' of my 'Shire' had probably been acid etched pror to plating. I am now getting the impression that metal ends are always hand cut (or perhaps mechanically cut using modern technology?). Is there any specific reason for etching not being a realistic alternative to all that drilling and hand-cutting. My only experience of such matters relates to the etching of printing plates for the old fashioned letterpress printing process. I guess the etching would have to be done in very controlled stages by a truly competent craftsman but the end result should surely be comparable to the 'real thing' and significantly quicker and easier......... or am I just advertising my ignorance?

 

Rod

 

And I must say guys, your concertina ends are beautifull. Very well done indeed.

[john T]

Ahhh, well, the secret has to come out I suppose.

 

I used a router, unlike any other end-plates at the time.

 

I cut two templates from brass and used these to guide a small router bit around each 'fretted' end-plate.

You'll notice that there aren't any sharp corners Rod, since routers don't do sharp corners.

So long as I kept a good flow of suds (lubricant) I didn't burn out too many router bits.

It was one of the ways I was trying to keep costs down.

 

From the 'fretted' mild steel plate, I then stamped the edges with a bolster chisel to create the lip, filed off any burring with swiss files, stamped on the name, then burnished with a flap wheel.

 

When the final end-plate had a high steel polished look, I took it for plating.

I think (I am not sure of the coats) that it was plated with nickel first, then chrome.

 

It meant I was able to produce an end plate in about 30 mins, and polished ready to plate in an hour.

 

If you look inside the action box, you'll see that the levers were made from thick brass wire (I think I made most of them like that) and where I needed to pivot the lever I stamped it under a fly press and drilled a hole in it, then threaded one end for the pad. This method also saved a lot of time, but it wasn't unique.

 

Regarding etching 'fret' work, I honestly have no idea. I think it may be pretty expensive to do, since a lot of acid might be needed. I really don't know. Sorry.

 

I do know that some makers would use a CNC router to cut the basic 'fretting' shape out and cut the corners in by hand so that it would appear to have all been done manually.

But I am no expert on concertinas. There are people on this site with phenominal knowledge, and I expect one of them can answer that question better than I.

I have a feeling too, that with thick metal the etching might 'undercut' since it would have to be in the bath quite a time.

But I am guessing only Rod.

I think I looked at the possiblitliy, but can't remember why I rejected it.

 

Kind regards - John Timpany.

[Rod]

Ahhh, well, the secret has to come out I suppose.

 

I used a router, unlike any other end-plates at the time.

 

I cut two templates from brass and used these to guide a small router bit around each 'fretted' end-plate.

You'll notice that there aren't any sharp corners Rod, since routers don't do sharp corners.

So long as I kept a good flow of suds (lubricant) I didn't burn out too many router bits.

It was one of the ways I was trying to keep costs down.

 

From the 'fretted' mild steel plate, I then stamped the edges with a bolster chisel to create the lip, filed off any burring with swiss files, stamped on the name, then burnished with a flap wheel.

 

When the final end-plate had a high steel polished look, I took it for plating.

I think (I am not sure of the coats) that it was plated with nickel first, then chrome.

 

It meant I was able to produce an end plate in about 30 mins, and polished ready to plate in an hour.

 

If you look inside the action box, you'll see that the levers were made from thick brass wire (I think I made most of them like that) and where I needed to pivot the lever I stamped it under a fly press and drilled a hole in it, then threaded one end for the pad. This method also saved a lot of time, but it wasn't unique.

 

Regarding etching 'fret' work, I honestly have no idea. I think it may be pretty expensive to do, since a lot of acid might be needed. I really don't know. Sorry.

 

I do know that some makers would use a CNC router to cut the basic 'fretting' shape out and cut the corners in by hand so that it would appear to have all been done manually.

But I am no expert on concertinas. There are people on this site with phenominal knowledge, and I expect one of them can answer that question better than I.

I have a feeling too, that with thick metal the etching might 'undercut' since it would have to be in the bath quite a time.

But I am guessing only Rod.

I think I looked at the possiblitliy, but can't remember why I rejected it.

 

Kind regards - John Timpany.

 

John. Thanks for your interesting reply. It is the intricacy and detail of your splendid endplates that led me to suppose that it would have been impractical for you to have performed the whole operation with a drill and hand-held fret saw. I can well understand your sensible choice of templates and a precision router. You must have used exceedingly small router bits.

 

Yes. The obvious problem with acid etching would have been the constant threat that the acid would start undercuttug the metal. The process would have had to be done in many gradual stages between which the ends would have had to be lifted from the acid bath and rinsed and dried so that more 'resist' could be applied to the etched shoulders of the design to counteract undercutting.... using a suitably fine camel hair brush or something similar. This would of course have been a tedious and relatively time consuming operation but a viable alternative for those who say they hand cut their end plates? Perhaps the idea of routing and handcutting is more attractive than dabbling with evil smelling acids.

 

I have no direct experience to back any of this up so perhaps my ideas should be best ignored!!

 

All the best, Rodney Fuller

[Henrik Müller]

I had a chat with John Connor last year, he reconned that he spent about 8 hours on a pair of hand fretted stainless ends.

 

That nickel looks nice - jeffries style - but trimmed at the edges?

Question/comment for me, I assume? If given the possibility, I would have chosen "crimped" or bevelled ends (the edges you are "missing"?),

but at that point in time I didn't know how that was done, so I opted for the "inset into the wood"-ends = a flat plate.

I know now how the crimp is done - last year, Geoff Crabb posted a couple of Aha!-photos of the necessary tool here .

 

And with that knowledge I would still have opted for the flat ends . Nothing fancy about the tool, except you need to have it...

 

The "Jeffries"-part only applies when we are close to the edges - it stops as soon as we approach the buttons

 

/Henrik

[mike averill]

I had a chat with John Connor last year, he reconned that he spent about 8 hours on a pair of hand fretted stainless ends.

 

That nickel looks nice - jeffries style - but trimmed at the edges?

Question/comment for me, I assume? If given the possibility, I would have chosen "crimped" or bevelled ends (the edges you are "missing"?),

but at that point in time I didn't know how that was done, so I opted for the "inset into the wood"-ends = a flat plate.

I know now how the crimp is done - last year, Geoff Crabb posted a couple of Aha!-photos of the necessary tool here .

 

And with that knowledge I would still have opted for the flat ends . Nothing fancy about the tool, except you need to have it...

 

The "Jeffries"-part only applies when we are close to the edges - it stops as soon as we approach the buttons

 

/Henrik

 

Was refering to Bobs ends; the circular out edge trims the traditional pattern.

[Bob Tedrow]

I had a chat with John Connor last year, he reconned that he spent about 8 hours on a pair of hand fretted stainless ends.

 

That nickel looks nice - jeffries style - but trimmed at the edges?

Question/comment for me, I assume? If given the possibility, I would have chosen "crimped" or bevelled ends (the edges you are "missing"?),

but at that point in time I didn't know how that was done, so I opted for the "inset into the wood"-ends = a flat plate.

I know now how the crimp is done - last year, Geoff Crabb posted a couple of Aha!-photos of the necessary tool here .

 

And with that knowledge I would still have opted for the flat ends . Nothing fancy about the tool, except you need to have it...

 

The "Jeffries"-part only applies when we are close to the edges - it stops as soon as we approach the buttons

 

/Henrik

 

Was refering to Bobs ends; the circular out edge trims the traditional pattern.

 

I think the round edges contrast the very square concertina.

 

Bob