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Takayuki YAGI

Miniature On Ebay

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Interesting miniature on ebay. Who made this one ??

--

Taka

The seller speculates htat it was made in France. Anyone hear of any French makers?

 

There seems to be no wrist strap or finger rests of any kind. Was the player supposed to pinch each end between thumb and another finger, leaving the remaining fingers to play the 6 buttons? Might work.

 

Hard to tell from the photos whether it is Anglo or EC, tho from the staggered button setup I'd guess EC.

--Mike K.

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Interesting miniature on ebay. Who made this one ??

--

Taka

The seller speculates htat it was made in France. Anyone hear of any French makers?

 

There seems to be no wrist strap or finger rests of any kind. Was the player supposed to pinch each end between thumb and another finger, leaving the remaining fingers to play the 6 buttons? Might work.

 

Hard to tell from the photos whether it is Anglo or EC, tho from the staggered button setup I'd guess EC.

--Mike K.

 

Have a look at the pictures about two-thirds of the way down in this article. It won't answer the nationality question (though it does give fodder for a guess), but it answers method and type pretty well, I'd say.

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There seems to be no wrist strap or finger rests of any kind. Was the player supposed to pinch each end between thumb and another finger, leaving the remaining fingers to play the 6 buttons? Might work.

 

I've played a minature with no straps, and that was what I did. In fact, it looked pretty much the same as that one. Can't remember where it was made though (this was over 20 years ago. God, I'm old. :( ).

 

Hard to tell from the photos whether it is Anglo or EC, tho from the staggered button setup I'd guess EC.

--Mike K.

 

The one I played was an Anglo. Can't remember about the button layout, though.

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Interesting miniature on ebay. Who made this one ??

The seller speculates htat it was made in France. Anyone hear of any French makers?

 

There seems to be no wrist strap or finger rests of any kind. Was the player supposed to pinch each end between thumb and another finger, leaving the remaining fingers to play the 6 buttons?

Yep.

Hard to tell from the photos whether it is Anglo or EC, tho from the staggered button setup I'd guess EC.

Doesn't look to me like either EC or duet, but looks reasonable for an anglo. Also, 10 buttons would be reasonable for an anglo, but rather limited for English or duet.

 

has some good information on miniatures, and a few nice photos. Unfortunately, Morgana's web site seems to have disappeared.

 

And the maker? The very limited fretwork has a couple of design elements that look like close copies of ones on my normal-size Jeffries anglo. Could it be?
:unsure:

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So it's a 12 key Anglo; (got to be an Anglo hasn't it?)

 

Having never even tried to understand Anglo layouts, what would the range of this be? No accidentals, no repeated notes, one and a half octaves?

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So it's a 12 key Anglo; (got to be an Anglo hasn't it?)

 

Having never even tried to understand Anglo layouts, what would the range of this be? No accidentals, no repeated notes, one and a half octaves?

I reckon one full octave with an extra G/B at the bottom (assuming it's in C) and er..... another button playing two other notes. :blink:

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So it's a 12 key Anglo; (got to be an Anglo hasn't it?)

I count ten buttons... 5 on each end.

 

Having never even tried to understand Anglo layouts, what would the range of this be? No accidentals, no repeated notes, one and a half octaves?

On an anglo, just 8 buttons would be enough for 2 diatonic octaves plus one additional note.

 

But from the arrangement of the buttons, I would guess that the upper rows (3 buttons in each hand) give 1½ diatonic octaves -- e.g., from C to A in the left hand and onward from B through the G above in the right. Then the lower 2 buttons in each hand could add a couple of accidentals or opposite-direction duplications.

 

That's my guess, anyway. If it were a "duet" or "English", the range would be only 2 notes more than a single diatonic octave, and I think the only reasonable note layout to match that button layout would be Jeffries duet. (Note that the fretwork indicates the intended orientation of the buttons when playing.)

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So by being completely wrong with my maths my 1 1/2 octave guess was probably right?

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So it's a 12 key Anglo; (got to be an Anglo hasn't it?)

 

Having never even tried to understand Anglo layouts, what would the range of this be? No accidentals, no repeated notes, one and a half octaves?

At the 2004 NESI (New England Squeeze-In), I fooled with a mini Anglo on display that had only 5 buttons per side, or one row of C or G or whatever. That gave two diatonic melody octaves plus a bass octave with the tonic and dominant chords' notes. Perfectly good for diatonic tunes, and the eBay model ahs two more.

 

But its buttons were arranged in a single arc, liek each row of a full-size Anglo. That's what threw me off about the eBay job -- its staggered button arrangement. Maybe since the ends are so small, a single arc would put the buttons too close together for easy fingering, so the staggering separates them enough that one finger doesn't squash two buttons at once.--Mike K.

Edited by ragtimer

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So by being completely wrong with my maths my 1 1/2 octave guess was probably right?

Something like that.
:D
;)

At the 2004 NESI (New England Squeeze-In), I fooled with a mini Anglo on display that had only 5 buttons per side, or one row of C or G or whatever. That gave two diatonic melody octaves plus a bass octave with the tonic and dominant chords' notes. Perfectly good for diatonic tunes, and the eBay model ahs two more.

No, it doesn't. You apparently took Dirge's miscount as fact, rather than counting for yourself. I hope you don't do that with politicians... or your mortgage broker. :o

 

But its buttons were arranged in a single arc, liek each row of a full-size Anglo. That's what threw me off about the eBay job -- its staggered button arrangement. Maybe since the ends are so small, a single arc would put the buttons too close together for easy fingering, so the staggering separates them enough that one finger doesn't squash two buttons at once.

You think they decided on the size of the ends first, then found a way to fit some notes onto the ends? I would expect that arranging the notes/buttons to make sense to a player would have been at least as important to the design as size.

 

The one you saw at NESI sounds like a more-ore-less standard one-row arrangement, which could be made rather small because there weren't as many reeds to fit into the inside (half as many as a 20-button, and a standard-size 20-button has lots of extra space). Lacking the facts, I'll stick to my guess that the 3-button rows on each end of this one on eBay match the "central" 6 buttons (rightmost 3 on the left, leftmost 3 on the right) of a single row on an ordinary anglo, with the "inner row" of 4 buttons (2 in each end) being extra "bass" (low C/G, if in C), accidental (pull F# and press either Bb or C#?), and/or reversal (most likely A/G vs. G/A) notes.

 

Edited to correct an error in quote attribution.

Edited by JimLucas

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You can't credit me with that last quote Jim; it's all Greek to me and I don't speak it.

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Hard to tell from the photos whether it is Anglo or EC, tho from the staggered button setup I'd guess EC.

--Mike K.

 

I asked the seller:

Is this a Anglo, English or Duet concertina? Does any button plays the same note on the push and the pull? And if it's the same note, are the lower notes on one side of the instrument and the higher ones on other side, or are the notes alternately on the left and right hand side?

 

His answer:

Thanks for your querry. I was only just informed by another E-bayer about the meaning of Anglo & English. Hence I can confirm that the concertina works on the English system. I tried it out and the lower notes are on one side whilst the higher notes are on the other side. I hope that this will make it worth a fortune and wish you good luck with your bidding on E-bay,

 

Does that make it a Duet?

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I don't see any air button location that makes sense. I only play an anglo, but assume if there are any buttons that could be pushed and pulled for a different pitch an air button would be required.

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I asked the seller:

Is this a Anglo, English or Duet concertina? Does any button plays the same note on the push and the pull? And if it's the same note, are the lower notes on one side of the instrument and the higher ones on other side, or are the notes alternately on the left and right hand side?

His answer:

Thanks for your querry. I was only just informed by another E-bayer about the meaning of Anglo & English. Hence I can confirm that the concertina works on the English system. I tried it out and the lower notes are on one side whilst the higher notes are on the other side. I hope that this will make it worth a fortune and wish you good luck with your bidding on E-bay,

Does that make it a Duet?

I would answer that with a very definite "maybe".

The "obvious" interpretation of the seller's "the concertina works on the English system" is that all buttons are the same note in both directions. But he hasn't actually said that, and other sellers have managed to seriously garble factual information they've been given. (E.g., see this post by Theo.) But the button arrangement doesn't seem right for any duet system I know, even in minimal approximation. If the seller did not get the English-anglo distinction backward, then it does sound as if it would be some sort of duet. I'd certainly like to see a full note layout for it.

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Hi Everyone

 

I think I was the guilty party who "explained" the anglo/English difference and received a personal reply to the effect that it definitely plays the same note push and pull - so between Jim's question and mine there seems to be no doubt in the seller's opinion as to the nature of the action. Also, his English is very good, so I reckon he fully understands our queries and also replied to me that the low notes were on the left and the high ones on the right. Soooooo..... even if inadvertently held upside down, there seems to be a "duet" quality to this one to puzzle over. Not for me, but sounds very interesting.

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