Identification Problem

[nkgibbs]

Hello,

What does everyone make of this 'English' concertina?

Best Regards,

Neil

[Greg Jowaisas]

Hi Neil,

the pic is a bit dark for me to make out the fretwork. I'm getting a Chidley feeling though.

What is the action like?

Bellows papers?

 

Greg

[Stephen Chambers]

Neil,

 

That fretwork pattern goes back to Wheatstone's earliest handmade production (before the days of Louis Lachenal), though the design was much copied by other makers, including German ones. The rebate around the end suggests a later date for this instrument, though more detail would be needed to (hopefully) come to any conclusions.

[nkgibbs]

Dear Greg and Stephen,

Many thanks for your sage comments. I purchased this concertina from Ebay where there are other pictures. I suppose my real question is whether it is a German English or an English English? The black (painted?) wood is interesting??

 

Regards,

Neil

[Christian Husmann]

Dear Greg and Stephen,

Many thanks for your sage comments. I purchased this concertina from Ebay where there are other pictures. I suppose my real question is whether it is a German English or an English English? The black (painted?) wood is interesting??

 

Regards,

Neil

 

Maybe I can add something:

The German description says it´s built by someone called Zeuner having Lachenal´s concertinas taken as examples.

Perhaps it might be easier to tell something about if you could give as well an image of the action.

 

Regards

Christian

[Theo]

Based on one example of a German made Wheatstone copy that I have worked on I strongly suspect that this one is German made. I've looked at the ebay photos and I can see, or possible see some features that seem to be signs of non-English manufacture:

• Flat topped heads of end bolts, English makers usually used bolts that are rounded to some degree.
  
• flat reedpan with rather shallow chambers
  
• the numbers stamped internally are a different colour and style from typical English stampings
  
• Note letters stamped on reed shoes are a different style from typical English makes
  
• Reed tongues look crudely made compared to what you would expect in a Wheatstone, even an early one.
  

 

and all this seems to be consistent with the translation provided by Christian.

[Stephen Chambers]

Based on one example of a German made Wheatstone copy that I have worked on I strongly suspect that this one is German made.

The ends and bellows papers of that instrument, by Schuster, are remarkably similar to those of this Zeuner, as can be seen in your photos of it (which I've taken the liberty of reproducing below).

 

 

[*]Reed tongues look crudely made compared to what you would expect in a Wheatstone, even an early one.

Let me clarify and add that I wasn't meaning to suggest that the instrument might actually be an early Wheatstone, only (as I've mentioned previously when these German Englishes have been discussed: Schuster & Co "english" Concertina, information requested) that the fretwork design originates with those instruments, and was much copied. Indeed the reedframes in an early Wheatstone would be square-ended, exquisitely made and very different to these.

[Marien]

in addition, the end plates look quite massive for a wheatstone don't they?

[nkgibbs]

Thanks for all your comments, I will post a picture of the action when the concertina is received............maybe I have 'bought a lemon'????

Regards,

Neil

Edited March 12, 2008 by nkgibbs

[nkgibbs]

Here is a picture of the action of this 'English' concertina. What does everyone think??

Thanks,

With Regards,

Neil

[Daniel Hersh]

Is there any evidence that this is not what others say that it probably is: a German-built English concertina generally copying a Lachenal design? Or am I misunderstanding your question?

 

Here is a picture of the action of this 'English' concertina. What does everyone think??

Thanks,

With Regards,

Neil

[Stephen Chambers]

............maybe I have 'bought a lemon'????

Not so much a lemon, more of a mel[of]on?

 

(Melofon/melophon was the old German name for the English concertina.)

[Christian Husmann]

............maybe I have 'bought a lemon'????

Not so much a lemon, more of a mel[of]on?

 

(Melofon/melophon was the old German name for the English concertina.)

 

Hello everybody,

 

I have a question:

I always thought to be relativly well informed what to expect in instruments built and (still) being sold in this country. Going to markets, shops ect. you´ll sometimes find all sorts of free reed instruments piled up. Since being interested in concertinas I never found any of these out there, every now and than I see an old Scholer type of Anglo but that´s it.

 

Do you (Stephen) probably have an idea of the number of instruments being (re)build in Germany? Was it any common or was it just a short rise up of an interest in instruments being built in G. Britain?

I simply can´t find any proper information about that.

 

Thanks

Christian

[Daniel Hersh]

Christian--

 

I may able to help with this one. BGK Beschäftigungsgesellschaft Klingenthal mbH is an active builder of 20-button concertinas. Their instruments are sold here in the US under the names Silvetta (by the dealer Sam Ash) and Castiglione (by the dealer Castiglione). I've got one of their concertinas (a double-reed octave-tuned G/D purchased from Castiglione) and it's a good instrument for the price. I think that they sell concertinas in Germany under the Silvetta name too via Hartenhauer and perhaps others. My guess is that they sell quite a few concertinas, but I couldn't estimate a count.

 

I'll defer to Stephen on the historic part of the question.

 

Daniel

 

............maybe I have 'bought a lemon'????

Not so much a lemon, more of a mel[of]on?

 

(Melofon/melophon was the old German name for the English concertina.)

Hello everybody,

 

I have a question:

I always thought to be relativly well informed what to expect in instruments built and (still) being sold in this country. Going to markets, shops ect. you´ll sometimes find all sorts of free reed instruments piled up. Since being interested in concertinas I never found any of these out there, every now and than I see an old Scholer type of Anglo but that´s it.

 

Do you (Stephen) probably have an idea of the number of instruments being (re)build in Germany? Was it any common or was it just a short rise up of an interest in instruments being built in G. Britain?

I simply can´t find any proper information about that.

 

Thanks

Christian

Edited March 16, 2008 by Daniel Hersh

[asdormire]

Elderly instruments also have had the Castigliones recently. Nice to know that these are decent enough instruments.

 

Alan

[Christian Husmann]

Hello Daniel,

 

thank you for providing this information, haven´t heard of these before!

 

Greetings

Christian

 

Christian--

 

I may able to help with this one. BGK Beschäftigungsgesellschaft Klingenthal mbH is an active builder of 20-button concertinas. Their instruments are sold here in the US under the names Silvetta (by the dealer Sam Ash) and Castiglione (by the dealer Castiglione). I've got one of their concertinas (a double-reed octave-tuned G/D purchased from Castiglione) and it's a good instrument for the price. I think that they sell concertinas in Germany under the Silvetta name too via Hartenhauer and perhaps others. My guess is that they sell quite a few concertinas, but I couldn't estimate a count.

 

I'll defer to Stephen on the historic part of the question.

 

Daniel

[Stephen Chambers]

(Melofon/melophon was the old German name for the English concertina.)

Do you (Stephen) probably have an idea of the number of instruments being (re)build in Germany? Was it any common or was it just a short rise up of an interest in instruments being built in G. Britain?

I simply can´t find any proper information about that.

Christian,

 

There probably isn't much information about German production or playing of them, but there are enough references and surviving instruments to show that English concertinas were formerly being made and played in France, Germany, Austria-Hungary and Scandinavia. They were also being exported internationally (including to Germany) from England.

 

You might find this thread interesting: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...&hl=melofon, and especially these posts: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...ost&p=12730 and http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...ost&p=43630

Edited March 18, 2008 by Stephen Chambers

[Christian Husmann]

Thank you very much for this information!

I thought that there was not really a lot of it but if there is interest in general here I might put my ears to the ground.

Maybe I´ll come across some more infos.

 

Greetings

Christian

 

(Melofon/melophon was the old German name for the English concertina.)

Do you (Stephen) probably have an idea of the number of instruments being (re)build in Germany? Was it any common or was it just a short rise up of an interest in instruments being built in G. Britain?

I simply can´t find any proper information about that.

Christian,

 

There probably isn't much information about German production or playing of them, but there are enough references and surviving instruments to show that English concertinas were formerly being made and played in France, Germany, Austria-Hungary and Scandinavia. They were also being exported internationally (including to Germany) from England.