A 440 English Or Anglo

[Bob Norris]

Looking for a used A 440 English or Anglo.

[ben]

Looking for a used A 440 English or Anglo.

 

Hi Bob, I know of a 32 button Crabb Anglo C/G that is for sale. It is tuned to the A=440 modern concert pitch. I had the chance to try out that Crabb Anglo for a whole evening. It is a wonderful instrument. I also know of a Bb/F Tedrow concertina that is for sale.

Edited March 2, 2008 by Ben Otto

[Bob Norris]

Hi,

 

Thank you but Im looking for a lower end instrument to start with. Our other instruments tune to A 440.

 

 

 

Looking for a used A 440 English or Anglo.

 

Hi Bob, there are two excellent Anglo's up for sale on Ebay. They both are tuned to the A=440 modern concert pitch. Both sales are closing on Sunday. The one is an excellent Crabb Anglo with 32 buttons and the other one is a 32 button Lachenal anglo. I had the chance to try out that Crabb Anglo for a whole evening. It is a wonderful instrument.

[Anglo-Irishman]

Hi,

 

Thank you but Im looking for a lower end instrument to start with. Our other instruments tune to A 440.

 

Bob,

 

If you're going for the low end, you'd be best off with a new instrument, like my Stagi, or those sold by Wakker. These are all tuned to A=440. The pitch uncertainties are with the older instruments, which are all either high-end price-wise, or in need of tuning anyway ;-)

 

I play my Stagi Anglo in a group with all instruments tuned electronically to A=440. Works perfectly - unless the fiddler's pegs slip!

 

Cheers,

John

[Bob Norris]

Hi,

 

Thank you but Im looking for a lower end instrument to start with. Our other instruments tune to A 440.

 

Bob,

 

If you're going for the low end, you'd be best off with a new instrument, like my Stagi, or those sold by Wakker. These are all tuned to A=440. The pitch uncertainties are with the older instruments, which are all either high-end price-wise, or in need of tuning anyway ;-)

 

I play my Stagi Anglo in a group with all instruments tuned electronically to A=440. Works perfectly - unless the fiddler's pegs slip!

 

Cheers,

John

 

 

Hello Sir,

 

Can you reccomens a model and a place to buy one?

[Daniel Hersh]

Best deals for reliable starter/student instruments are usually considered to be the Rochelle (Anglo), Jackie (standard English) and Jack (baritone English) from the Concertina Connection. You can buy them directly or from various dealers.

 

Hi,

 

Thank you but Im looking for a lower end instrument to start with. Our other instruments tune to A 440.

Bob,

 

If you're going for the low end, you'd be best off with a new instrument, like my Stagi, or those sold by Wakker. These are all tuned to A=440. The pitch uncertainties are with the older instruments, which are all either high-end price-wise, or in need of tuning anyway ;-)

 

I play my Stagi Anglo in a group with all instruments tuned electronically to A=440. Works perfectly - unless the fiddler's pegs slip!

 

Cheers,

John

Hello Sir,

 

Can you reccomens a model and a place to buy one?

Edited March 3, 2008 by Daniel Hersh

[Bob Norris]

Best deals for reliable starter/student instruments are usually considered to be the Rochelle (Anglo), Jackie (standard English) and Jack (baritone English) from the Concertina Connection. You can buy them directly or from various dealers.

 

Hi,

 

Thank you but Im looking for a lower end instrument to start with. Our other instruments tune to A 440.

Bob,

 

If you're going for the low end, you'd be best off with a new instrument, like my Stagi, or those sold by Wakker. These are all tuned to A=440. The pitch uncertainties are with the older instruments, which are all either high-end price-wise, or in need of tuning anyway ;-)

 

I play my Stagi Anglo in a group with all instruments tuned electronically to A=440. Works perfectly - unless the fiddler's pegs slip!

 

Cheers,

John

Hello Sir,

 

Can you reccomens a model and a place to buy one?

 

But these are not A-440 are they?

[Dirge]

Sorry to be blunt Bob, but all of Daniel's suggestions are supplied in modern pitch (which is what you are asking for) and even if you got a second hand concertina the odds are it could be retuned economically. But the real point is that unless you have accordians, pianos and the like that can't be tuned on the spot in your group, they're pretty poor musicians if they can't tune to an instrument they're playing with.

 

Stand no nonsense from string and wind players. They have to check their tuning every time they pick the things up anyway. Just buy a concertina, march in, and say 'Right, here's a G'. It really is the best way.

 

The only ones who need to worry about this are people playing with big mixed groups (sessions say) or with other 'untuneable' instruments. (more concertinas, perhaps. You don't need to worry if the other untuneable instruments are melodions or accordions because no one will hear you anyway)

[Daniel Hersh]

Bob--

 

Pretty much any modern concertina that's playable will be in modern pitch. It's only the unrestored vintage ones (say 80+ years old) that might not be.

 

Daniel

 

Sorry to be blunt Bob, but all of Daniel's suggestions are supplied in modern pitch (which is what you are asking for) and even if you got a second hand concertina the odds are it could be retuned economically. But the real point is that unless you have accordians, pianos and the like that can't be tuned on the spot in your group, they're pretty poor musicians if they can't tune to an instrument they're playing with.

 

Stand no nonsense from string and wind players. They have to check their tuning every time they pick the things up anyway. Just buy a concertina, march in, and say 'Right, here's a G'. It really is the best way.

 

The only ones who need to worry about this are people playing with big mixed groups (sessions say) or with other 'untuneable' instruments. (more concertinas, perhaps. You don't need to worry if the other untuneable instruments are melodions or accordions because no one will hear you anyway)

[Stephen Chambers]

But these are not A-440 are they?

 

Bob,

 

Having looked through your previous posts, I wonder if we might be speaking at cross-purposes here?

 

The pitch of any musical instrument is normally described in terms of the number of Hertz (cycles per second) to produce the note A above middle C, and formerly there were various "standards" in use such as Continental Pitch A 435, New Philharmonic A 439, Society of Arts A 446 or Old Philharmonic A 454, and unaltered old concertinas can be found in any of those pitches. However, just about any instrument built since the Second World War is going to be in A 440 pitch, which was agreed upon as an International Standard of Pitch shortly before the outbreak of that War (though not the cause of it! ).

 

But A 440 does not signify what key an instrument is in, which could be (for example) C, Bb, Eb or A, etc., it defines only how high, or low, the relative pitch of the notes is. Do you perhaps mean that you are looking for a concertina that is in the key of A (though also at A 440 pitch)?

Edited March 6, 2008 by Stephen Chambers

[Bob Norris]

But these are not A-440 are they?

 

Bob,

 

Having looked through your previous posts, I wonder if we might be speaking at cross-purposes here?

 

The pitch of any musical instrument is normally described in terms of the number of Hertz (cycles per second) to produce the note A above middle C, and formerly there were various "standards" in use such as Continental Pitch A 435, New Philharmonic A 439, Society of Arts A 446 or Old Philharmonic A 454, and unaltered old concertinas can be found in any of those pitches. However, just about any instrument built since the Second World War is going to be in A 440 pitch, which was agreed upon as an International Standard of Pitch shortly before the outbreak of that War (though not the cause of it! ).

 

But A 440 does not signify what key an instrument is in, which could be (for example) C, Bb, Eb or A, etc., it defines only how high, or low, the relative pitch of the notes is. Do you perhaps mean that you are looking for a concertina that is in the key of A (though also at A 440 pitch)?

 

Yes. Our Small Pipes are tuned to A 440. I have asked this before but had no luck. Pretty sure I want an Anglo too. Something low end as this is just a test.

[Stephen Chambers]

But these are not A-440 are they?

Do you perhaps mean that you are looking for a concertina that is in the key of A (though also at A 440 pitch)?

Yes. Our Small Pipes are tuned to A 440. I have asked this before but had no luck. Pretty sure I want an Anglo too. Something low end as this is just a test.

Bob,

 

Well, as I was trying to explain, all modern instruments are tuned to A440, which is another way of describing modern concert pitch, but if you're looking for a cheap Anglo in the key of A, then that is another story altogether...

 

As far as I know, the only cheap new Anglos made in that key today are D/A instruments made at Klingenthal in Germany, though those would have a high A row. But I don't know where you might get one from - does anybody else?

 

Otherwise, if you want a low A row, you'll have to find an old Anglo in A/E.

[Bob Norris]

But these are not A-440 are they?

Do you perhaps mean that you are looking for a concertina that is in the key of A (though also at A 440 pitch)?

Yes. Our Small Pipes are tuned to A 440. I have asked this before but had no luck. Pretty sure I want an Anglo too. Something low end as this is just a test.

Bob,

 

Well, as I was trying to explain, all modern instruments are tuned to A440, which is another way of describing modern concert pitch, but if you're looking for a cheap Anglo in the key of A, then that is another story altogether...

 

As far as I know, the only cheap new Anglos made in that key today are D/A instruments made at Klingenthal in Germany, though those would have a high A row. But I don't know where you might get one from - does anybody else?

 

Otherwise, if you want a low A row, you'll have to find an old Anglo in A/E.

 

Hi,

 

If you could please listen to this recording and tell me what would work? Its a tune I wrote for a

friend played on our pipes: http://www.cyberbeta.com/ScottMc/Scott6.mp3

 

Story: http://www.cyberbeta.com/ScottMc/

[Daniel Hersh]

I hear two parts played in countermelody. Are you hoping to play both parts at the same time on concertina, or one at a time? If you're planning to play one at a time, a 30-button C/G Anglo such as a Rochelle should do the job. If you want to play both parts at once, I think that would be tricky for a beginner on an Anglo, no matter what the key.

 

But these are not A-440 are they?

Do you perhaps mean that you are looking for a concertina that is in the key of A (though also at A 440 pitch)?

Yes. Our Small Pipes are tuned to A 440. I have asked this before but had no luck. Pretty sure I want an Anglo too. Something low end as this is just a test.

Bob,

 

Well, as I was trying to explain, all modern instruments are tuned to A440, which is another way of describing modern concert pitch, but if you're looking for a cheap Anglo in the key of A, then that is another story altogether...

 

As far as I know, the only cheap new Anglos made in that key today are D/A instruments made at Klingenthal in Germany, though those would have a high A row. But I don't know where you might get one from - does anybody else?

 

Otherwise, if you want a low A row, you'll have to find an old Anglo in A/E.

Hi,

 

If you could please listen to this recording and tell me what would work? Its a tune I wrote for a

friend played on our pipes: http://www.cyberbeta.com/ScottMc/Scott6.mp3

Story: http://www.cyberbeta.com/ScottMc/

[JimLucas]

Yes. Our Small Pipes are tuned to A 440. I have asked this before but had no luck. Pretty sure I want an Anglo too. Something low end as this is just a test.

If you could please listen to this recording and tell me what would work? Its a tune I wrote for a friend played on our pipes: http://www.cyberbeta.com/ScottMc/Scott6.mp3

 

Story: http://www.cyberbeta.com/ScottMc/

Bob, I think I see what's behind what Stephen called "speaking at cross-purposes". You are playing Scottish pipes. Scottish pipes (whether "war" or "small") are usually described -- by those who don't play them -- as being in the key of Bb, but those who do play them think of that key as A, and in music written for the pipes that note which defines the key is written as A.

 

If we take the pipers' nomenclature and accept that note to be A, then it's not A=440, but somewhere around A=466. (In an even-tempered scale based on A=440, Bb is 466.13....) But the pipes you play in your recording do have that A at a pitch of 440 hz... a half-step lower than what is still pretty much the standard for Scots pipes. In your language, that means you want to play your tune on an instrument tuned to A=440 instead of to A=466. In our language, that means you want to play your tune on an instrument that's in the key of A, rather than in the key of Bb (but in our language, both would be tuned to A=440).

 

But now on to what sort of instrument you need. First of all, the scale of the pipes isn't a standard major (or minor) scale; it's in the mixolydian mode. That means that while the principal note (often called the "tonic") is A, it has the same sharps (F# and C#) and flats (none) as the key of D major. So if you want to play along with your pipes on a concertina that's restricted in the keys it can play, the key you need is D, not A.

 

As far as I know, the only cheap new Anglos made in [the key of A] today are D/A instruments made at Klingenthal in Germany, though those would have a high A row. But I don't know where you might get one from - does anybody else?

 

Otherwise, if you want a low A row, you'll have to find an old Anglo in A/E.

As I've noted, the "key" You need, Bob, is D, not A, so a 20-button D/A anglo should have all the notes you need, but an A/E would not... it would be missing the critical G-natural.

 

I hear two parts played in countermelody. Are you hoping to play both parts at the same time on concertina, or one at a time? If you're planning to play one at a time, a 30-button C/G Anglo such as a Rochelle should do the job. If you want to play both parts at once, I think that would be tricky for a beginner on an Anglo, no matter what the key.

As Daniel says, a 30-button anglo in C/G will have all the notes you need (and a few more). What's more, if you want to simulate drones, it has the low A-E combination on the push. But you can't do a constant drone along with the melody, because at least one melody note (F#) exists only on the pull.

 

I would think that for the music you apparently want to play, a duet or an English would serve you better.

 

I recommend that you also review what was said in the Topic you started last June.

 

By the way, what ever happened with the instrument your sister-in-law had?

[Stephen Chambers]

But now on to what sort of instrument you need. First of all, the scale of the pipes isn't a standard major (or minor) scale; it's in the mixolydian mode. That means that while the principal note (often called the "tonic") is A, it has the same sharps (F# and C#) and flats (none) as the key of D major. So if you want to play along with your pipes on a concertina that's restricted in the keys it can play, the key you need is D, not A.

 

... the "key" You need, Bob, is D, not A, so a 20-button D/A anglo should have all the notes you need, but an A/E would not... it would be missing the critical G-natural.

In which case, it might be easier to find a G/D Anglo, giving you both A mixolydian, and no shortage of G naturals?

 

I would think that for the music you apparently want to play, a duet or an English would serve you better.

I'd certainly have recommended the English (which seems to be the choice of most Scottish concertina players) if it wasn't for Bob's preference for an Anglo, and for an instrument pitched in the key of A [mixolydian]. But I think the duet is likely to rule itself out due to price.

[Bob Norris]

But now on to what sort of instrument you need. First of all, the scale of the pipes isn't a standard major (or minor) scale; it's in the mixolydian mode. That means that while the principal note (often called the "tonic") is A, it has the same sharps (F# and C#) and flats (none) as the key of D major. So if you want to play along with your pipes on a concertina that's restricted in the keys it can play, the key you need is D, not A.

 

... the "key" You need, Bob, is D, not A, so a 20-button D/A anglo should have all the notes you need, but an A/E would not... it would be missing the critical G-natural.

In which case, it might be easier to find a G/D Anglo, giving you both A mixolydian, and no shortage of G naturals?

 

I would think that for the music you apparently want to play, a duet or an English would serve you better.

I'd certainly have recommended the English (which seems to be the choice of most Scottish concertina players) if it wasn't for Bob's preference for an Anglo, and for an instrument pitched in the key of A [mixolydian]. But I think the duet is likely to rule itself out due to price.

 

Hi Jim,

 

"by those who don't play them -- as being in the key of Bb, but those who do play them think of that key as A, and in music written for the pipes that note which defines the key is written as A.

"

 

Actually the GHP are in the key of Bb while these small pipes are in the key of A, big difference. I have looked at my previous post and am still confused about what willplay with these pipes.

 

The one my sister in law sent, a 2 key anglo C/G will defiantly not play with these pipes.

 

The recording I posted is our pipes (two of them) playing together but with harmonies.

 

I think Im really wanting an anglo as I play the harmonica (two different sounds same note). Lets see if anything else comes in today. Thanks!

[Laitch]

Here's a quick desecration of Bob's sound file to show him that a 30-button C/G Anglo can cover his range, but I think he should wait an additional nine months before he rents an English or an Anglo from The Button Box, just to be sure.

 

 

What do you know? The response to this post proves a thousand kilobytes is worth a thousand words! Maybe. I've pulled the soundfile to spruce it up for the Grammy Nominations Committee, to provide enough bandwidth to support the discussion of the double bass in Irish session playing elsewhere on the site, and to prevent futile hurling.

Edited March 16, 2008 by Laitch