sailarrgh Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Hullo Folks, I'm new-ish, reading for several months before registering. Name is John, location in Victoria, BC. While I'm waiting for the affordable 30 button C/G D/G Anglo to come along I've been enjoying reading the various posts on C.Net. A musical friend of mine, also now on C.Net, sent this link to me. I'm simply forwarding it for general Concertina availability awareness. No connection with the owner. A 1857 Wheatstone Made for Joseph Scates – Amboina Burl, Silver Alloy Reed, 48 Button Treble English Concertina, available in Seattle. Cheers, JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Hullo Folks, I'm new-ish, reading for several months before registering. Name is John, location in Victoria, BC. While I'm waiting for the affordable 30 button C/G D/G Anglo to come along I've been enjoying reading the various posts on C.Net. A musical friend of mine, also now on C.Net, sent this link to me. I'm simply forwarding it for general Concertina availability awareness. No connection with the owner. A 1857 Wheatstone Made for Joseph Scates – Amboina Burl, Silver Alloy Reed, 48 Button Treble English Concertina, available in Seattle. Cheers, JD Sounded like the brass reeds are a bit slow with high noticeably muted, in which case the price is way too high and comparison with Dipper is stretched. I didn't notice any bushings around the buttons, but spaces may indicate their former presence. Probably eaten by those worms. Are silver-brass alloy reeds really so magnifiscent? Brass is an alloy itself, so Silver-brass alloy would be Copper/Zink/Silver alloy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 You forgot to add "but thanks for telling us about it though, and by the way well done for taking the plunge and joining the merry crew"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 You forgot to add "but thanks for telling us about it though, and by the way well done for taking the plunge and joining the merry crew"! Thanks for telling us about it and well done for taking the plunge and joining the merry crew. Although frankly I wouldn't add the last part. I think it's equally good to take up any instrument. But I do like people who take up obscure rare instruments better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Husmann Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Hullo Folks, I'm new-ish, reading for several months before registering. Name is John, location in Victoria, BC. While I'm waiting for the affordable 30 button C/G D/G Anglo to come along I've been enjoying reading the various posts on C.Net. A musical friend of mine, also now on C.Net, sent this link to me. I'm simply forwarding it for general Concertina availability awareness. No connection with the owner. A 1857 Wheatstone Made for Joseph Scates – Amboina Burl, Silver Alloy Reed, 48 Button Treble English Concertina, available in Seattle. Cheers, JD The part about the worms is a bit of a drawback, isn´t it? Beautiful instrument though... Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 A 1857 Wheatstone Made for Joseph Scates – Amboina Burl, Silver Alloy Reed, 48 Button Treble English Concertina, available in Seattle. This description reads a bit like some of the ebay antique dealers concertina descriptions that have been discussed on other threads here. Clearly some research has been done by this seller, but its still being talked up, even hyped, rather than giving a straightforward description. I think the "silver alloy" reeds are more likely to be "German silver". German silver, also known as nickel silver, is a nickel alloy designed to look like silver, but to be cheaper and more hard wearing. It was certainly used in some very early concertina reeds. In the ones I've seen it plays very much like brass. Its also the material typically used for metal concertina ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Hi The serial number first appears in 1859 (ledger 1051 page 86) (courtesy of Wes Williams' look up tables) it also appears in ledger 1052 page 61 and as a hire instrument in ledger 1052 page 68. It doesn't seem clear from the photos why he id's it as a Joseph Scates. I think that it is bushed but it is black and just below the surface. It is not a serial number that I recognise from Scates' Wheatstone purchases. It's a pretty concertina tho' but perhaps a tad overpriced. However if he gets that price then I'd better up the value of mine on the insurance chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sailarrgh Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 Thank you indeed for the welcome(s). I enjoyed reading the observations and feedback on this instrument. It's not one I'd be after, however it's interesting to learn about history and valuation, amongst other aspects, of checking out older instruments. How to 'key out' so to speak, like taxonomy with plants an' animals. My 2 row C/G arrived and I'm starting to mess with it, however I'll be still looking for a G/C or D/G 30 key Anglo. Likely it will be an instrument already in NA as, while the GBP to CAD exchange is about 2:1, the valuation in real terms seems about the same. Cheers, John JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 This description reads a bit like some of the ebay antique dealers concertina descriptions that have been discussed on other threads here. Clearly some research has been done by this seller, but its still being talked up, even hyped, rather than giving a straightforward description. Indeed so, and I know that the seller couldn't be more wrong with this statement either ... In 1994 Joel Cowan had an almost identical 44 button model dating to 1838 about which he said: “this collector’s item is in splendid condition and with original bellows, straps and baffles, in its original variagated woodden case, and considering its age it still plays amazingly well.” I would echo those statements about this Scates model. Joel thought his example worth a full page ad in Concertina and Swueezebox No. 31. ... seeing that I was the purchaser of that instrument from Joel Cowan, which is a very early, and much more historically important, Wheatstone of completely different construction to this Louis Lachenal-built example from two decades later. In fact the only similarity between them is that both have amboyna ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyd Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 HiThe serial number first appears in 1859 (ledger 1051 page 86) (courtesy of Wes Williams' look up tables) it also appears in ledger 1052 page 61 and as a hire instrument in ledger 1052 page 68. It doesn't seem clear from the photos why he id's it as a Joseph Scates. I think that it is bushed but it is black and just below the surface. It is not a serial number that I recognise from Scates' Wheatstone purchases. It's a pretty concertina tho' but perhaps a tad overpriced. However if he gets that price then I'd better up the value of mine on the insurance chris I have been following the discussion of the 1857 Scates concertina with some interest. Judging by the photos and the sound clip. I appear to have virtually the same instrument. Same box, same fretwork, same bellows design etc. My instrument indicates however that Joseph Scates was located at No. 26 College Green (rather than No. 27) and the serial number is very distinctly 905. I also have a handbill from the "Exhibition Expositor" No. 24, Dublin, October 21st, 1853 indicating that Scates was at that time located at No. 26 College Green. Even if there were a 4 or 5 year gap between the production of the two instruments the gap between serial numbers would suggest that Scates was reselling and or churning them out by the thousands. Is this possible? Is there any indication of the origin of the 905 serial number? Cheers Davyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 Judging by the photos and the sound clip. I appear to have virtually the same instrument. Same box, same fretwork, same bellows design etc. My instrument indicates however that Joseph Scates was located at No. 26 College Green (rather than No. 27) and the serial number is very distinctly 905. I also have a handbill from the "Exhibition Expositor" No. 24, Dublin, October 21st, 1853 indicating that Scates was at that time located at No. 26 College Green. Even if there were a 4 or 5 year gap between the production of the two instruments the gap between serial numbers would suggest that Scates was reselling and or churning them out by the thousands. Is this possible? Is there any indication of the origin of the 905 serial number? Davyd, Joseph Scates sold concertinas from various makers (including some of his own production from London, and some for which he seems to have made the reeds) when he was in Dublin and the serial numbers they bear are those of their actual builders, not his, so they give no indication whatsoever of the quantity he sold. I've already mentioned his various (known) sources in this old post. I've also listed his Dublin addresses in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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