English Concertina - Beginner's Question

[P Carr]

This is probably a really stupid question...

 

In tunes when notes follow a fifth apart - like from D to A in the lower octave, is there a way of making things sound smoother?

 

I've just been using the same finger and trying not to be jerky - but in quick tunes, it doesn't seem easy...

 

All help appreciated! I've only been playing for a couple of weeks, but I'm really enjoying the English Concertina - and I love being able to play in all the keys like Fnat and E - E can be difficult on wooden flute but is great on the concertina!

 

Thanks,

Pamela

Edited February 20, 2008 by P Carr

[Larry Stout]

The general advice is to find a fingering where you don't use the same finger. For instance for the D to A in the lower octave you might play the D with your index finger and the A with the middle finger-- or perhaps the other way around if this will be followed by a note using that middle finger. That said, I've found such fingerings hard to adopt since they change the orientation of my hands to the buttons-- maybe I should have followed the advice not to use the same finger for two successive notes in a legato phrase (which can be found in Wim Wakker's advice on technique or in Atlas's book, among other places) from the beginning!

 

Enjoy your new found musical friend. I certainly like mine. A good thing since I now have four of them!

[pugwash]

Hello Pamela. I too am a beginner. I have been playing now for nine months, and I also came to that problem at the start, but as stated above, I found using the index and middle finger the best method (For me) I felt very awkward at first but after consistantly practicing it, I now find it very natural. I thought it a good idea to do this, because some three finger cord positions require it.

 

Richard.

[Pete Dunk]

This is probably a really stupid question...

As someone once said, there are no stupid questions just stupid answers. I echo the previous comments, as you move away from the gentle tempos you really need to find logical fingerings to cope with fifth jumps (D to A for example) and repeated notes; if you're honest with yourself even legato passages at slow tempo aren't as smooth as they could be - you have to sacrifice something if the same finger plays consecutive notes whether it's on two different buttons or the same one, although in some instances you can use bellows technique to get around the latter.

 

Perhaps the best thing you can do from here is to relearn the tunes you already know using a better fingering method before moving on to harder or faster pieces, that way you can concentrate on the problem at hand instead of having to cope with too many changes at once. Do you have a proper tutor book (there are such things for free on the net) or a player who lives locally who might give you a few pointers? Best of luck with your practicing and welcome to the maddeningly frustrating world of English concertina playing!

 

Pete

[P Carr]

Thanks to those who replied. So it's back to the drawing board for me!

 

I've been using the Butler tutor that I downloaded from the internet - and watching some of the online tutorials that are available on youtube.

 

Can anyone suggest anything better for technique? I play the wooden flute so already know lots of tunes and can learn by ear, read music etc. It's really technique I'd like to focus on.

[buikligger]

Hi all,

 

so far (9 months) i have been playing the 5th jumps with the same finger on my EC. It produces a jumpy effect. Sometimes i have to play the tune a little bit different from the desired ABC line, but i stay in the same cord. It seems to work rather well with the Irish repertoire. I'll see where it leads me to.

Since i have some pain in the thumbs , i don't want to stretch further and play across the rows. I play with the four fingers, one row for one finger.

 

kind greetings

 

Dirk, Flanders, Belgium

[Henrik Müller]

...So it's back to the drawing board for me!

 

...I play the wooden flute so already know lots of tunes and can learn by ear, read music etc. It's really technique I'd like to focus on.

Hello there, Pamela - and welcome onboard the Concertina Ship!

Lots of good things have come from the drawing board (and some bad ones, too ).

 

You have one great advantage - you have the tunes in your head.

Trying to learn the tune and learn to play it at the same time makes things

unnecessarily complicated. Personally, I brainwash myself with a new tune

until it sits solidly. And most often I find it playable straight away, apart from

technical quirks. Which brings us back to technique:

 

Fifth jumps, which we find a lot in Irish music, calls for cross-fingering - that the middle

finger crosses below the index finger. Jumpiness removed.

Then there is finger-switching - that one finger replaces another on the same button.

 

Here is a little thing to try (first two bars of "Repeal of the Union"):

 

 

Hopefully this should turn on a few light bulbs and "Aha!"s.

 

Demo tunes

From time to time, I try to make a note of tunes which are particularly well suited

to demonstrate a certain technique. "My Love is in America" is such a tune.

There are no fifth jumps, but lots of finger-switching.

 

If you don't know it, go to www-dot-thesession-dot-org and search for it.

No promise, but I'll try during the week to put fingering on it.

 

Once all light bulbs are blazing awa' there is no need for fingering charts!

 

/Henrik

[P Carr]

Thank you everyone, and I'm glad I asked the question! I had been just accepting the little gaps, but now that I understand what to do, I'm not finding it too hard to substitute fingers for 5ths, although it does take more planning!

 

The thing I just love about the English concertina is not having to breathe! So although the fingering needs work to become more legato, I love the way it phrases and ability to play long sections. A great little instrument and I'm having so much fun.

 

Concertina.net is a great source of information - I would never have managed otherwise.

 

Best,

Pamela

[Pete Dunk]

I know I'm going to get some stick for this but I made a short video this morning that illustrates what Henrik is talking about. I thought it would be easy to do but nerves got the better of me, I can play slightly better than this, honest. Despite my comment about abandoning the finger rest to do this I found it was frozen in place! Oh well, you'll get the general idea anyway.

 

Fingering demo.

[Henrik Müller]

I know I'm going to get some stick for this but I made a short video...

Stick?! What stick? Not from me!

Good on you - great job! Shudder... (feeling the video pressure mounting )

/Henrik

[Henrik Müller]

...

However I find that for some Northumbrian tunes ,It is better not to cross finger

...

Absolutely - no legato-ness there, please.

/Henrik

[Pete Dunk]

feeling the video pressure mounting

G'wan, you know you want to! It'd be great to see and hear the kitchen table project in action too, I've spent many happy hours browsing all of the pics and one of these fine days I'm going to give it whirl myself.

 

Pete.

[P Carr]

Fantastic! It was wonderful to see your fingers playing so close!!! I've "unplugged it" and will be keeping the clip - and now will add using my ring finger as well as index and the next... It's so much better to learn from a real person than a book but I've been amazed at how few English concertina teachers / classes there are around me in Highland Perthshire. Hopefully, one day, I'll have a real live lesson...

 

BTW, Battle of the Somme is a great tune - played often in our local session.

 

Pamela

[Pete Dunk]

If you want to see proper players close up, check out Danny Chapman and Pauline deSnoo!

[Henrik Müller]

feeling the video pressure mounting

G'wan, you know you want to! It'd be great to see and hear the kitchen table project in action too, I've spent many happy hours browsing all of the pics and one of these fine days I'm going to give it whirl myself.

 

Pete.

Hello, Pete -

That was heart-warming reading

 

I have actually started my trials with tunes to use as examples.

Definitely a good project - I can see from Pamela's enthusiastic comments that it could fall on fertile ground.

/Henrik

[P Carr]

Definitely a good project - I can see from Pamela's enthusiastic comments that it could fall on fertile ground.

 

The whole thread has been heartwarming! As for my enthusiastic comments, I'm afraid some think that I have an excess of enthusiasm... Seriously, I've been really touched by everyone's generosity in responding to my question, plus the images, clips AND the kitchen project.

 

I've now progressed to using all three fingers on each hand, where appropriate and that definitely is what was needed for some tunes. Since I've only been playing for three weeks, I've avoided getting stuck in a bad habit.

 

And I'm having such fun!

 

Pamela

Edited February 22, 2008 by P Carr

[Pete Dunk]

The whole thread has been heartwarming! As for my enthusiastic comments, I'm afraid some think that I have an excess of enthusiasm... Seriously, I've been really touched by everyone's generosity in responding to my question, plus the images, clips AND the kitchen project.

 

I've now progressed to using all three fingers on each hand, where appropriate and that definitely is what was needed for some tunes. Since I've only been playing for three weeks, I've avoided getting stuck in a bad habit.

 

And I'm having such fun!

 

Pamela

 

Oh you don't get off that easily you know, you've raised our curiosity. Given that there aren't many concertina players in the region what caused you to take up the concertina in the first place? Once you'd made up your mind to play concertina why English rather than anglo or duet? Most importantly, tell us about your concertina!

[P Carr]

Oh you don't get off that easily you know, you've raised our curiosity. Given that there aren't many concertina players in the region what caused you to take up the concertina in the first place? Once you'd made up your mind to play concertina why English rather than anglo or duet? Most importantly, tell us about your concertina!

 

Okay, here goes... I've been wanting to play another session instrument, besides wooden flute, for a few years and have dabbled in learning smallpipes and piano accordion. Much as I've enjoyed them, they just weren't what I wanted to do, being too loud, too big, not very portable etc etc. (and no offence to players of the aforementioned). Last summer, at Norman Chalmer's mixed instrument week on Skye, there were 3 English concertina players and an Anglo player which got me interested. Then over the past few months I've met a few more English concertina players and decided to have a go - and after doing a lot of research, I decided that English concertina would suit me better, seems more popular in Scotland and I didn't think I could cope with the notes changing on push and pull.

 

Thanks to all the great information here on concertina.net and on the internet, I bought an old Lachenal 48-button from Chris Algar and it's lovely. And the wooden flute and concertina go great together - but not at the same time!

 

So that's me... off to play something on something, as usual!