English International Lineup

[m3838]

I totally agree with everybody who posted this far.

I also find in disbelief that some people misunderstood me. I guess they just jumped to defence , been a little extra agitated.

I think Alan understood me well and sort of agrees with me. I'm in no way attacking the compilation.

Just when I listened to the Anglo International, I was a little surprized that most of the tracks are very much Englsih/British/Irish or if you are inclined, Irish/British/English. Irish was played the best, the farther the music went away from the Foggy Albion, the less proficiency was noted. I'm not sure if it's bad, I guess English/British/Irish may take pride in it.

The line-up of English International (great tytle, btw) suggests the same.

Not that it's bad per se, but I hoped to see more variety. But most of all I am hoping to see high standard of playing.

So I was interested in mostly two aspects (like, probably, everybody else) - proficiency of EC playing, making the music feel like it was meant for the instrument, not merely adapted, and ethnic divercity.

I guess I should lower my divercity expectations, but I will keep my other one high.

To Mark.

Classical music "is" very international by it's players' body, but very uniform in style by it's content.

There is no reason to boast International aspect of classical musicians' gathering, because ti's a given and only politicians care about it. Other words, it's truly International.

International Balalaika playing would be, hmm, an eye opener.

[Mark Evans]

To Mark.

Classical music "is" very international by it's players' body, but very uniform in style by it's content.

There is no reason to boast International aspect of classical musicians' gathering, because ti's a given and only politicians care about it. Other words, it's truly International.

International Balalaika playing would be, hmm, an eye opener.

 

Hmm. Allowing myself to employ the term incorrectly as is present practice may have gotten me in trouble. Of course Misha you would catch me in my sloth. "Classical" in a Western European context honestly refers only to a limited time period: around 1770-1825 with it's big three I offer for general stylistic identification only: Haydn, Mozart and early to middle Beethoven (great music, but only the middle of the story).

 

The broad popular application of the term "Classical" splashes sloppily from the mid 1500's right up and through the early 1950's. There is no uniformity, only endless variation and exception with developent, transformation and dissolution of forms, tonal systems, philsophy etc, on and on to the end of time and then some. The practicioners at the end of the stated time-line eventually rejected and "decomposed" almost everything the early to middle progenitors started, not unlike looking at Botticelli's painting the Birth of Venus at the Uffizzi in Ferenze and then walking around the corner at the MOA in NYC to be knocked on one's backside by that large, explosive Jackson Pollock.

 

Cruse YouTube a bit Misha and check out the comments left by fans about say Glenn Gould, or Maria Callas, or Pablo Cassals clips. Passion, insanity and damn near blood lust fist fights. Many ages and experiences unified by a passion that makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. They make any of our little dust-ups mere child's play .

[m3838]

"Classical" in a Western European context honestly refers only to a limited time period: around 1770-1825

 

Really? Is there a convention? So Shostakovich is not "Classical"? Perhaps it is not, but surely in the "classical style"? On one hand I realize that terms and definitions are there only lables for critics and sales personnel A real style is represented only by one person - the author. On the other hand authors need artists with specific skills, and traditionally these skills have been honed so that when Leonard Bernstein writes for violin, tradition makes sure that named Leonard doesn't have to play it by himself. This, I must say, rigid tradition of training "classical" musicians may suggest that composers write music that is understood and performed by lowly professionals. I think this mutual lock makes this music recognizeable as "classical".

Am I off the wack here?

[Mark Evans]

Neo-classical maybe, but only in the broadest sense. Some put him with the Post-Romantic movement, Nationalizm. I can only imagine he would have peered through those thick glasses taken a big drag on the ever present cigarette upon hearing such a thing and put his head down, defeated.

 

My most profound moment as a singer was performing the Songs on Jewish Folk Poetry (circa 1949) with the youngest Solzinitin at the piano. Misha if you get Shostakovich, you can call it whatever you want. I call it without freakin' equal on this planet. Works for me .

 

P.S. Are you off track? Hmm, who am I to say, I'm just a lowely former professional.

Edited February 22, 2008 by Mark Evans

[Robert Booth]

Say, in all the bloviation above, I seem to have missed the single most important point...

Who is the one from Oregon?

Robert

[m3838]

Neo-classical maybe, but only in the broadest sense.

 

As a lowly professonal unsuccessful wannabe to former lowly professional: So how do you call the music that is not pop, not folk and not sacred, uses philharmony orchestra that plays works of Shostakovich, Shnidtke, Brahms and Tshaikovsky in one evening?

[RatFace]

Neo-classical maybe, but only in the broadest sense.

 

As a lowly professonal unsuccessful wannabe to former lowly professional: So how do you call the music that is not pop, not folk and not sacred, uses philharmony orchestra that plays works of Shostakovich, Shnidtke, Brahms and Tshaikovsky in one evening?

 

It's sometimes called "art" music, but I find that very condescending as it suggests that everything else is lacking artistically.

 

I think classical has more than one meaning (in practice, if not in definition), like many words. I would call Shostakovich Classical, but not Classical Classical.

[Mark Evans]

Say, in all the bloviation above, I seem to have missed the single most important point...

Who is the one from Oregon?

Robert

 

Hasn't Wim relocated to Oregon? Bloviation...I like that.

Edited February 22, 2008 by Mark Evans

[Mark Evans]

As a lowly professonal unsuccessful wannabe to former lowly professional: So how do you call the music that is not pop, not folk and not sacred, uses philharmony orchestra that plays works of Shostakovich, Shnidtke, Brahms and Tshaikovsky in one evening?

 

A damned fine evening at the concert hall! What niche to stuff them into?

 

Shostakovich: Neo-Classical, post-Romantic Nationalizm (forgive me Dimitri)

 

Shnidke: Post-Modern...ah, kinda nutty cat running across the piano stuff!

 

Both Brahms and Tshaikovsky are later Romantic with a re-introduction of Classical Sonata-Allegro form (they were both drubbed in their day as a bit reactionary).

 

Call the whole thing...Evening at Symphony. At least here in Boston a pair of tickets half- way back in the orchestra section will set you back a cool hundred bucks, parking another $20 and drinks afterward? .

 

Stark, raving mad the whole business.

Edited February 23, 2008 by Mark Evans

[m3838]

Call the whole thing...Evening at Symphony. At least here in Boston a pair of tickets half- way back in the orchestra section will set you back a cool hundred bucks, parking another $20 and drinks afterward? .

 

Stark, raving mad the whole business.

 

Nah, you can go to Youth orchestra at a third of the price and buy standing ticketts at some half of that, then sit in 2nd row in parter in the middle.

Those darn Russians, they know a hole in the fence.

[allan atlas]

NO. . . .wim and family are settling in Spokane, WA................allan

[Henrik Müller]

...Henrik is a Swede if I'm not mistaken...

Gosh, what a terrible, terrible mistake - I am Danish but I live in Sweden (just to confuse people).

 

/Henrik

 

I have learned to be very careful distinguishing between people from Scandinavia. I once had a girlfriend who was Scandinavian, but I didn’t know her nationality. I told her she had a Swede smile, but a face like a Norse. She said it was Finnish and I never saw her again.

 

I am sorry, I just couldn't restrain myself.

 

Dan Madden

Yep - if you ignore the differences, you can be in trouble!

I understand the lack of restrainment - I'll add that to my collection.

/Henrik

[SteveP]

I can't quite believe some of the carping over the name which has gone on here. When England play Scotland, it is referred to as an International. The End.

 

Congratulations and thanks to Alan & Graham for doing this, and roll on Duet International.

[Alan Day]

Misha has hit upon the frustrations of putting these compilations together and it is why I do understand part of what he is trying to say. A good example is Russia ,who in the early 1900s produced two of the finest concertina players the World has ever seen playing their style of music. Where are the Russian players now? The only player who was suggested to me playing Eastern European music was Mark Gilston an American. So what has happened there? It would appear that the Piano Accordion has been adopted by many musicians to best express their music.

What about the USA and Latin America ?In the USA a large number of concertina players purchase the instrument for either Irish music ,English Morris and Classical. In recent years Jody has developed the Contra Dance style,Mark Evans American Country music. Where are the wonderful Jazz and Blues players? My examples of American and South American music had to come from

John Nixon (UK) who shows by his playing and multi tracking skills what is possible for a small group of concertina players to achieve. China the home of multi production concertinas , from which I know of no talented players that I could introduce to you and the list goes on.Even with English Morris playing, my choice was Jan Elliott an American. So talented players and styles do dominate this collection, but Global talent could not be found. Perhaps ten or twenty years from now someone will have another go at this type of compilation to show the progress of the instruments and if the players we have chosen give any inspiration as to what these lovely instruments can do, then we have done our job.

Al

[chiton1]

Hee you should have included me in your selection. I am Uruguayan and German (had the French nationaltiy too until they wanted me to do military service - so I renounced it - still two left...). My father was german, and my mother half French, half Italian. I was born in Uruguay, and lived most of my life in The Netherlands (which culture I know best by now). I am now based in Brittany (France). I play Irish music and some Breton on my EC, but my own compositions and improvisations are quite universal (including a little tango twist now and then). Anyway, including me should have been enough to satisfy Misha ;-) (still don't know how to use these bloody smily icons!).

Hermann

[Alan Day]

Hee you should have included me in your selection. I am Uruguayan and German (had the French nationaltiy too until they wanted me to do military service - so I renounced it - still two left...). My father was german, and my mother half French, half Italian. I was born in Uruguay, and lived most of my life in The Netherlands (which culture I know best by now). I am now based in Brittany (France). I play Irish music and some Breton on my EC, but my own compositions and improvisations are quite universal (including a little tango twist now and then). Anyway, including me should have been enough to satisfy Misha ;-) (still don't know how to use these bloody smily icons!).

Hermann

Well Hermann you would certainly get away with Chiton 1 International if you bought out a CD nobody could complain about that.

Al

[PeterT]

Hee you should have included me in your selection. I am Uruguayan and German (had the French nationaltiy too until they wanted me to do military service - so I renounced it - still two left...). My father was german, and my mother half French, half Italian. I was born in Uruguay, and lived most of my life in The Netherlands (which culture I know best by now). I am now based in Brittany (France). I play Irish music and some Breton on my EC, but my own compositions and improvisations are quite universal (including a little tango twist now and then). Anyway, including me should have been enough to satisfy Misha ;-) (still don't know how to use these bloody smily icons!).

Hermann

Well Hermann you would certainly get away with Chiton 1 International if you bought out a CD nobody could complain about that.

Al

Lessons available in

Regards,

Peter.

 

PS - I second Alan's comment!

[chiton1]

I just might do that, when I have finished my modest home studio. Of course I will first send some samples to concertina.net (I am planning that for ages now).

And now for the icons: Does this work I can't see it Perhaps it shows when I send the message

Hermann